One for Dragon ...

[SimonsMerc]

I've known some very bad salespeople make a very good living and continue to do so, simply because there is a product that people need and want to buy.
Any product with an ongoing related service can make a poor salesperson a good living, because the ongoing support 'wins' them extra business further down the line.
There are indeed good and bad sales people, the good ones command respect, the poor ones command derision, but the two facets are not often linked to income or success.

Hrm. On reflection I guess you're right. It's a shame. I would like the bad salespeople to just die out. They cause me no end of pain (for the record, I'm the guy who gets to implement the lies). But often they don't, and they make a lot of money. *******s :-|

 

[W210 Fan]

glad to see having got back from the pub this thread has not degenerated into a willy showing contest, both sides were egging each other on as we live in different worlds and maybe one day we will agree to disagree,

however we both do seem to hate the same type of salesman, so we have found some common ground

 

[prprandall51]

Mainly because they received and elevated position during Mrs Thatchers era, which they have capitalized on since. The same isn't true in all countries, even within Europe.

I think that was barrow-boy city traders, not salespeople. I can't think of anything that Thatcher did to enhance the status of salespeople over and above others - she just generally envigorated an exhausted economy, from which everybody (except the soap-dodgers) benefited.

I'd agree there. I see many poor ones make a good living though and carve out a career with prospects.

I agree with you (and myself) - sales as a career collects some of the most obnoxious and arrogant incompetants going, something you would never see in engineering. But at the top end, it is also the career of some of the brightest people I have ever met, too.

Absolute cobblers.
I think the old saying went. Anyone can train to be a Salesman, but you have to be born to be an engineer.
It's having that inquisitive mind makes an engineer, if you don't have that you can't be one, however much training you have.

Well, we aren't in disagreement about what you say about engineers - but if you look around, I am afraid that good engineers are ten a penny. Believe me, I wish they weren't and then, perhaps, I could have justified staying in the profession because my skills would have been more valued. But good engineers are so prevalent that they will never command the highest salaries (which is what I wanted from my career; I recognise others have different priorities).

My university engineering course was packed with bright and capable people (mostly men, unfortunately) who have all gone on to become good engineers. I was fortunate enough to be tutored by lecturers who had worked on projects such as TSRII and Concorde (my two dream machines at the time) but, for all their contribution to our country, its economy and its defence, where did they end up? In a lecture theatre instead of retired in a large garden.

Perhaps closer to home (for this forum, anyway) I have worked with the engineers who developed and built the world's first in-car navigation system and patented the core technologies that are still called on by every navigation system worldwide today. None of them earned the financial reward that I think such ground-breaking work deserved and, indeed, one of them only retired when his wife picked up a stash resulting from an IPO - he could never have afforded to stop working otherwise.

I love engineering, I would love to have been an engineer. It's just that I have an equal respect for the vital contribution that good salespeople also make to a successful organisation.

 

[Dragon]

I think that was barrow-boy city traders, not salespeople. I can't think of anything that Thatcher did to enhance the status of salespeople over and above others - she just generally envigorated an exhausted economy, from which everybody (except the soap-dodgers) benefited.



I agree with you (and myself) - sales as a career collects some of the most obnoxious and arrogant incompetants going, something you would never see in engineering. But at the top end, it is also the career of some of the brightest people I have ever met, too.



Well, we aren't in disagreement about what you say about engineers - but if you look around, I am afraid that good engineers are ten a penny. Believe me, I wish they weren't and then, perhaps, I could have justified staying in the profession because my skills would have been more valued. But good engineers are so prevalent that they will never command the highest salaries (which is what I wanted from my career; I recognise others have different priorities).

My university engineering course was packed with bright and capable people (mostly men, unfortunately) who have all gone on to become good engineers. I was fortunate enough to be tutored by lecturers who had worked on projects such as TSRII and Concorde (my two dream machines at the time) but, for all their contribution to our country, its economy and its defence, where did they end up? In a lecture theatre instead of retired in a large garden.

Perhaps closer to home (for this forum, anyway) I have worked with the engineers who developed and built the world's first in-car navigation system and patented the core technologies that are still called on by every navigation system worldwide today. None of them earned the financial reward that I think such ground-breaking work deserved and, indeed, one of them only retired when his wife picked up a stash resulting from an IPO - he could never have afforded to stop working otherwise.

I love engineering, I would love to have been an engineer. It's just that I have an equal respect for the vital contribution that good salespeople also make to a successful organisation.

The conflict of interest between a saleman and an engineer is there is no such thing as no lies in salesmanship and an engineer cannot lie because it needs to be demonstrated to work. In the end in order to get something sold, a team work is needed.

 

[W210 Fan]

Dragon, thats well wrapped up mate,