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Piff

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
2,733
Location
Suffolk
Car
Porsche Macan S
So, back in December 2020 bought a 3.5 year old car from a multi franchise main dealer about 125 miles from home. Paid the advertised price. Car was a well known German brand we had never owned before.
The car was advertised with many standard & optional technical features. Having never bought this brand before I googled some of these features to understand what they were. Google information explained the feature but not necessarily how to access it in the car.
Collected the car on a wet December afternoon and by the time all paperwork was sorted it was getting dark. Due to Covid restrictions at the time, the salesman was reluctant to do much in the way of induction, just advising simple things such as how to turn on the lights/wipers & adjust the seats and showing us where thee handbook was in the glove box & on the infotainment system.
A few weeks ago we had a generic email from the aftersales dept at the dealership asking if we were enjoying the car and if they could do anything further to help. I replied asking for advice on how to use some of the technical features which we hadn't explored. No reply.
Over the last 6 months we have only covered about 2000 miles on local journeys. We now have a trip arranged for next week to Cornwall from Suffolk and I thought I had better get to grips with operation of the Sat Nav.
Scrolling through menu's I found a message from March 2020 advising the previous owner that certain features were coming to the end of their 3 year initial free period & would need subscriptions paying to continue their use. One of them is related to the Sat Nav which I had specifically requested that the maps were updated and was told that it had been done when we collected. The feature not working was not mentioned by me or them. I assumed that it would be working as it was clearly listed in the sales advertisement.
So the car has been supplied to us with several technological features advertised but not working unless I pay an annual subscription.

My question is - do you think advertised features should work if the customer pays the advertised price?
 
I think that items that only work by subscription need to be subscribed to if the user would like them to work.
 
No, these are on subscription. So one must pay that subscription to obtain the service
 
However, if the salesman did not explain that subscription was required, that would be a separate point of contention.
 
However, if the salesman did not explain that subscription was required, that would be a separate point of contention.
I’m surprised that if it was to be paid for as an extra that firstly it wasn’t mentioned, secondly it was clearly advertised and thirdly they didn’t try to sell it like they tried with gap insurance
 
No, these are on subscription. So one must pay that subscription to obtain the service
But if you are not told certain advertised features only work with additional subscriptions?
 
If it the BM then there would probably be a couple of updates from March 20 - Dec 20 , normally four a year.

Is it the updated maps you need or the RTTI part of the nav system , as i dont recon the roads from Suffolk to Cornwall will have changed that much over year or so especially with the pandemic.

I took out their extended Connected drive package and i think it was £80 (ish , on a black Friday deal) , this gives me USB Map updates , the Connected drive facility and the RTTI.

FWIW , if it was major requirement for buying the car i would have checked it out before i left the dealership and not six months later.

There may be a message saying the subscription is ending but could it have been done ? , what version of maps do you have ?

K
 
But if you are not told certain advertised features only work with additional subscriptions?
The 'batteries not included' caveat comes to mind. To my mind, you should have been alerted to the need for subscriptions but if the norm is now that you are expected to know than you will likely end up paying for them.
You could tell them that you had a reasonable right to be informed and see of they acquiesce. Given you were told that the maps had been updated - and its hard to imagine that being done without an active subscription - they may relent. Ask - at the very least you learn the nature of the dealership...
 
If it the BM then there would probably be a couple of updates from March 20 - Dec 20 , normally four a year.

Is it the updated maps you need or the RTTI part of the nav system , as i dont recon the roads from Suffolk to Cornwall will have changed that much over year or so especially with the pandemic.

I took out their extended Connected drive package and i think it was £80 (ish , on a black Friday deal) , this gives me USB Map updates , the Connected drive facility and the RTTI.

FWIW , if it was major requirement for buying the car i would have checked it out before i left the dealership and not six months later.

There may be a message saying the subscription is ending but could it have been done ? , what version of maps do you have ?

K
As far as I can work out:-

Version Information
BMW Group
101153.3.221
Road Map EUROPE EVO 2016-2
NBTevo L171931
Automatic map update GB, IE 2020-1

RTTI hasn't been updated as far as I can tell - only TMC is displayed.

And for the record, it wasn't a major reason for buying the car, it was the overall good specification & low mileage. Part of the good specification was some features that now appear to need subscription to make them work. As for checking before leaving the dealership I was in an unfamiliar car and wouldn't have had a clue as to how to find out how to call up that information.

Looks like the package you bought is normally £99
 
I think this has to do similar to Mercedes Me, car from new all services are free for 3 years, this includes sat nav updates, after which one has to pay for said services to be activated.

Which services are you referring to.

They may have advertised it, meaning the car has the capabilities for said services, also they don’t get any commission on these, unlike gap insurance and finance, payment for the services you are referring to, goes to Bmw uk or Germany, or for Mercedes Me, MB UK, or MB Germany.

For the record when I bought a BMW 3 series recently for my father, the salesman never mentioned anything about the paid subscription either.
 
Last edited:
To further add to the tale.
When buying the car I asked for the maps to be updated.
When collecting the car the salesman told me the maps had been updated as requested.
Recent weekend away to the midlands the car got "lost" on the way home - part of the Huntingdon upgrade of the A14.
Checking the maps version (and post 10 above) the maps version is 2016. So not updated since the car was new.......
 
Plenty of time in the last four months for you to get the maps updated, as you say in #10 you knew they were from 2016.
 
Well the argument is that a multi dealership over a 100 miles away had a salesman who said the sat nav had been updated when it had not,now do you actually want to move on this ,he will say I did not and you will say I did,so best to forget and fork out the £99 to update along with the other things that come with it,and as always it is buyer beware when dealing with used car sales people always have enough time to check things.
 
Google maps updates for £0.00 on a regular basis.
 
Recent weekend away to the midlands the car got "lost" on the way home - part of the Huntingdon upgrade of the A14.
Did you also get lost?
Usually these map updates aren't that important, and there are big huge signs saying ' NEW ROAD LAYOUT AHEAD' or something similar, with other signposts pointing to the directions needed to go to get to certain places.

Is it worth the hassle.
 
^^
Is what worth the hassle?

I'm from a generation where I expect people to do what they say they are going to do and when they tell me they have done it I like to believe them.

Why do they lie?

Another example of the lies which I had previously not mentioned here:-
" we now have the car in stock and there are a number of things we have to do to it before you collect it at the weekend
Service
MOT
Refurbish all 4 alloy wheels"

On collection I was told that these things had been done.

Dealer would not show the V5C, stating that they would deal with all paperwork. (turns out this is due to "data protection")

Service claims to have been done but they did not update the service record - subsequently updated.
MOT had been done but no paperwork provided - I had to download a copy which I couldn't do until I received the new V5C
None of the wheels had been refurbished - subsequently agreed a refund to cover part of the cost.

7 weeks later the new V5C arrived showing 2 previous keepers - we had been told it was a 1 owner car.

On collection we were told that it was a fantastic car, so much so that the previous owner had taken delivery of a new X3 exactly identical to their old one.
I later discovered that it was an X3 but petrol instead of diesel, M-Sport instead of X-Line, Silver instead of black, etc.

Why the lies?

When I discovered in July that the online services did not work I phoned BMW online help people. They were shocked that the online services had not been renewed in an approved used car and suggested I contact the supplying dealer - I did this in writing by email, twice, and to date I have had no reply to either email.
I didn't realise at that time that the maps had not been updated as I had been told that this was done.
I took out the subscription for the Real Time Traffic Info. Had I realised that the maps had not been updated I could have bought a dual package.

Whilst away in the Midlands I had a follow up email from BMW online help asking if I was happy with their service. Replied and confirmed that their man had been helpful but issues with the supplying dealer had not been resolved.
Not holding my breath, but will be interesting to see if they follow it up.
 
Did you also get lost?
Usually these map updates aren't that important, and there are big huge signs saying ' NEW ROAD LAYOUT AHEAD' or something similar, with other signposts pointing to the directions needed to go to get to certain places.

Is it worth the hassle.
I drive this new part of the A14 regularly and still chuckle that the E class sat nav shows me in the middle of fields. Tbh I usally use Google maps anyway as it's much more reliable for traffic.
 
Why the lies?
To make the sale. December is never a great month for car sales (people are generally concentrating on Christmas) and the market was on it's **** in 2020. They're desperate, and they'll say anything as a result hoping that either you won't call them on it, or it'll be someone else's problem to sort out. Moreso because you're miles from home so they're unlikely to make any repeat business off you.

It's not just car dealers that do it. In my old job, a significant part of the Engineering dept's effort was working out how to make sales' latest pie in the sky promises to the customer actually possible. There's a reason they're oft called the "bullshit and dreams brigade".
 
Sausages are horrible.
 

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