Orange Peel Paint. Yes or No?

[Will]

I can't understand how so many people on here have voted to reject the car, or have something done about it.

It's just how they all are these days. The poll results are totally inaccurate as they do not represent real life.

MB sell cars like this day in and day out (as do many manufacturers these days) and there are hundreds of members on here with cars exactly like this.

Who on this forum has actually rejected any new MB for the finish on the paintwork from new? Or been given a dicount or had a detailer wetsand and polish the entire car???

All of the owners on here with W204s, W212s, W221s etc will all have a similar finish on their paintwork if they look very closely under flourescent lighting or in other certain light conditions

Don't get me wrong, it's a shame and doesn't look anywhere near as good as MB paintwork used to back in the 80s/early 90s etc, but if you want a new car this is how they come now.

 

[MOCAŠ]

I can't understand how so many people on here have voted to reject the car, or have something done about it.

It's just how they all are these days. The poll results are totally inaccurate as they do not represent real life.

MB sell cars like this day in and day out (as do many manufacturere these days) and there are hundreds of members on here with cars exactly like this.

But ringway was asking what would you do if you found the finish unacceptable. Those who opt to take the car as it is are surely demonstrating that they can accept the fact that it's poorly finished.

 

[Will]

Hi Will,

not a good idea to flat and polish factory paint just not enough on there

I agree - to an extent you could probably flat and polish it to make it look better, but you don't really want to be removing a fairly significant percentage of the clearcoat on a brand new car with years ahead of it.

Gives you less clearcoat to play with for the future, less ability to polish out future scratches and swirls etc.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

The problems is Will, that most Mercs are silver which doesn't seem to show up the paintwork so bad. And then when you see a darker colour, it seems to look bad.

My new S211 has paintwork very similar to the one photographed by Ringway, in fact it's probably slightly better and mine is 5 year old...

 

[Will]

But ringway was asking what would you do if you found the finish unacceptable. Those who opt to take the car as it is are surely demonstrating that they can accept the fact that it's poorly finished.

I didn't read the poll in that way. I saw (see!) it as a question of whether or not you would find that finish acceptable - and if not, what you'd do about it (reject, resolve, compensate).

And the outcome of said poll is totally different to reality - with 96%+ of people saying that they wouldn't accept the car.

Just trying to show some reality here as I suspect that almost all MB cars irrespective of colour will have a similar finish to them, and that virtually no-one has rejected a car for this particular reason

 

[Will]

The problems is Will, that most Mercs are silver which doesn't seem to show up the paintwork so bad. And then when you see a darker colour, it seems to look bad.

My new S211 has paintwork very similar to the one photographed by Ringway, in fact it's probably slightly better and mine is 5 year old...

An honest response

I had a 2005 Audi a few years ago that was like this from brand new (metallic blue), all current VAG cars, BMWs, MBs etc look just the same.

Hundreds of thousands of cars just like this all over the world. Just take a look at any newish cars the next time you're under the flourescent lighting of a car park or petrol station etc

 

[Superspec]

I agree - to an extent you could probably flat and polish it to make it look better, but you don't really want to be removing a fairly significant percentage of the clearcoat on a brand new car with years ahead of it.

Gives you less clearcoat to play with for the future, less ability to polish out future scratches and swirls etc.

True, but if you wash it carefully you are less likely to put swirls in there in the first place and the kind of people who would go to the extent of wet sanding do look after their cars.

As far as RDS goes that could happen to any car and the ability to repair it would depend on the depth of the scratch. Even with a factory finish it may not be possible.

As I said, most people would be happy with the factory finish, for those of us who choose to do something about it there are some risks but they are understood and manageable.

 

[Will]

True, but if you wash it carefully you are less likely to put swirls in there in the first place and the kind of people who would go to the extent of wet sanding do look after their cars.

As far as RDS goes that could happen to any car and the ability to repair it would depend on the depth of the scratch. Even with a factory finish it may not be possible.

As I said, most people would be happy with the factory finish, for those of us who choose to do something about it there are some risks but they are understood and manageable.

I totally agree with you.

But with the vast majority of people on here suggesting that they would ask for the car's paintwork to be 'corrected' (by removing a good chunk of the clearcoat, by flatting and polishing), how many people actually wash their car with such care every time so as not to ever put any swirls in it?

Most people probably don't wash their cars themselves. Either using the local £5 jobbies, or dealer valets at service time, or even petrol station rotary brush washers

And that's ignoring the issue of RDS that will inevitibly get picked up over every car's lifetime - people brushing past in carparks or stuff flying up off the road surface etc. By removing a certain number of microns from the clearcoat, you're that bit closer to striking through to the paint every time a slight scratch or scrape appears

It's a risk you and me would be aware of and find acceptable for the rewards of an enhanced finish, but possiby not for the general public.

 

[eugekav]

I would reject

Hi,How would this paint weather if the paint is not flat then surely the british weather would erode or do its worst on sub-standerd paint finnish.nothing is perfect but if this is an ongoing problem then merc's quality reputation is soon damaged.Again the ship spoilt for a hapensworth of tar or quality control to keep an eye on the robots.How can it be right to pay full price for something that is a second.If they are cost cutting this is not a good look for a prestige car company and makes me think whare else are they cutting costs.Not at the dealerships ill be bound.Thanks for your time.

Euge.

 

[Will]

In terms of durability it's supposed to be pretty good.

They introducted 'Nano-particle' clearcoat for the paintwork some years ago. And the current cars are also galvanised - which should help rust-wise on the bodywork.

They'll still get swirled and chipped etc, but the paintwork finish isn't likely to become any more weathered as a result.


A little OT, but in times where we are critical of stuff like this, it's worth noting how cheap new cars are these days. I reckon they're about half the price that they were 20 years ago in real terms.

Quick look on MB's website and the E-class coupé starts at just £31,840 - in 2011.

How much did a base model 124 coupé cost in the late 80s or early 90s, and how did that compare to average earnings?

 

[MOCAŠ]

Quick look on MB's website and the E-class coupé starts at just £31,840 - in 2011.

How much did a base model 124 coupé cost in the late 80s or early 90s, and how did that compare to average earnings?

1989
230CE coupe: £25,200 (£48,899 in today's money)
Average annual salary: £16,123 (£31,286)

1992
230CE coupe: £29,660 (£47,882)
Average annual salary: £20,308 (£32,623)

 

[Will]

1989
230CE coupe: £25,200 (£48,899 in today's money)
Average annual salary: £16,123 (£31,286)

1992
230CE coupe: £29,660 (£47,882)
Average annual salary: £20,308 (£32,623)

So taking the average UK salary currently at just under £26k, relatively speaking new cars are cheaper than ever

I still can't believe that so many people on here must be telling porkies - as in not a single person would accept that car, when clearly there's loads of people on here with near identical paintwork!

Will

 

[artyman]

My three year old silver W204 doesn't show signs of orange peel, perhaps it's been flattened out by all the car washes from the previous owner

 

[Will]

My three year old silver W204 doesn't show signs of orange peel, perhaps it's been flattened out by all the car washes from the previous owner

Being silver it will be much harder to spot, but if you look closely under certain lighting conditions you should be able to see it

The colour won't affect the level of orange peel as it's mainly in the clearcoat it seems.

 

[MOCAŠ]

So taking the average UK salary currently at just under £26k, relatively speaking new cars are cheaper than ever

I still can't believe that so many people on here must be telling porkies - as in not a single person would accept that car, when clearly there's loads of people on here with near identical paintwork!

Will

It's better than that. Average salary (according to ft.com, where the figures for 1989/1992 came from) is now around the £37,000 mark. So yes, MB's cars have certainly become more affordable and in some cases, cheaper as well (as per this recent thread).

But I'm not sure how that relates to the quality of the paintwork, as the switch to water-based paints - if indeed that is the reason for rampant orange peel - was made for environmental/legislative reasons, rather than economic ones.

As for the porkie-tellers, I'm not so sure. I'm guessing they either bought their cars second hand, so didn't see the paintwork finish as being such an issue, or simply weren't sufficiently concerned about it to notice. As you've said yourself, most people just don't take the same level of interest in such things as others, so even the term 'orange peel' would be alien to them in the context.

That's why I believe we can discount them from this survey. If anyone does tick the option to say that they would accept the car as is, I would interpret that as meaning "I recognise that the paint is unacceptable, but I would accept the car despite this because it's the only model I really want."

 

[Superspec]

So taking the average UK salary currently at just under £26k, relatively speaking new cars are cheaper than ever

I still can't believe that so many people on here must be telling porkies - as in not a single person would accept that car, when clearly there's loads of people on here with near identical paintwork!

Will

I clicked I would reject the car (if it were that bad I would suspect something was amiss and that is why, buying a premium car that had already been repaired would p*** me off!!) but most people wouldn't even notice normal orange peel and as such wouldn't ask for any remedy. And anyway, when push comes to shove most people shy away from the kind of confrontation/challenge that would inevitably follow a complaint of this nature.

I did reject a Passat CC because they had built in wrongly (they put the wrong hifi in) despite huge pressure and financial inducement to keep it. Then I bought the Merc, best decision I made!

 

[Will]

I think that the confusion is coming from the fact that some people think that this particular car has either been repaired/resprayed and/or is somehow worse than usual.

Almost all new MBs, VWs etc and many other makes will have just as much orange peel as this car

I suspect that many people who opted to reject the car may not be aware of this, thinking that the car is below the usual standard that manufacturers supply these days?

 

[ringway]

I recently painted the fuel filler flap on my Sprinter. It's a weak spot that does corrode in advance of the rest of the van.

Below (I'm very ashamed to say) is an image of the old fuel flap. This was one of those little jobs that I neglected to do (I don't know how I let it lapse to such a poor state).








The old flap.

So, on to painting the new flap.

The flap cost just £10 + Vat and came ready primed in black, yes black.

I bough a small rattle-can of Mercedes Arctic White and set about painting the flap.

Not a big job. I used just a fan heater to get the area warm (and also the heated the flap) and applied the paint.

After a quick T-Cut (didn't really need it so much) there is little evidence of orange peel in finish and I'm pleased with the job I carried out in the garage at home with a fan heater, an aerosol an some T-cut. I know the aerosol paint isn't two-pack, but that wouldn't make any difference to my argument.

Given the "might" of Mercedes Benz, their huge budgets, the ability to automate and perfect the painting of their prized vehicles and the level of finish that their paying customers should expect as standard, I think they have failed miserably.

I really am at a loss as to how MB can turn out such garbage and look the customer in the eye. It really does beggar belief.

As for the car in the original pictures, I wouldn't buy it. Trying to sell the car in the future to someone with even an average eye for detail, how could you answer their questions..

Ultimately though, I wouldn't buy the original car because I think MB are being unfair in offering such a poor standard.

 

[eugekav]

peel!

Hi,Not being an expert in this field and having seen all these posts I rejected the car as i am paying good money for new car. I would be thinking I had the Friday afternoon car or the one they practised seting up their robots. it would not inspire confidence in the car generaly.So I refuse it! loose my deposit or build slot, what happens to that car does the dealer send it back to the factory or do they try to sell it.If the car went back as a return to the factory would'nt the manager be able to adress the problem with his robots.So by refusing to buy are you not helping merc rase their standards.A good looking car is a great advert for merc and lets hope that merc reputation built on quality does not let their standards slip.

 

[Scott_F]

It's better than that. Average salary (according to ft.com, where the figures for 1989/1992 came from) is now around the £37,000 mark.

Rather like house price values, this figure demonstrates how meaningless "average" figures can be when applied nationally.