Oxford's 20mph Limits 'waste of money'

[st13phil]

An outbreak of common sense at last? This was the front page article in the Oxford Mail last night, in which it transpires that average speeds have reduced by 1.3mph in the 20mph zones while KSI numbers have actually risen.

I particularly liked the the Thames Valley Police spokesman's comment

Simply putting a different number at the end of a road and relying on enforcement alone to achieve compliance is not the answer.

 

[MicB]

Agreed......waste of money and a misguided ''tool'' whatever the objective.

Mic

 

[BTB 500]

I seem to remember some kind of general statement (not specific to Oxford) that the Police would not enforce 20 mph zones, were there technical/legal issues e.g. car speedo accuracy at very low speeds?

 

[davethemus]

i agree with 20mph limits around schools though.

 

[MicB]

I seem to remember some kind of general statement (not specific to Oxford) that the Police would not enforce 20 mph zones, were there technical/legal issues e.g. car speedo accuracy at very low speeds?

My understanding, when the proposal was under consideration, was that the police did not accept that there is a case for a 20mph near blanket speed limit and that they did not believe that it would serve any useful purpose......in fact, on the contrary in that it was likely to add to traffic congestion. This is not proven because both motorists and the police ignore the 20mph limit.

Mic

 

[Doodle]

One good way to deal with the KSI figures would be to attend to the level of cycling proficiency. Oxford cyclists are without doubt some of the most stupid and suicidal in existence.

 

[Sp!ke]

Oxford cyclists are without doubt some of the most stupid and suicidal in existence.

My perception is that all cyclists are stupid.

 

[MicB]

One good way to deal with the KSI figures would be to attend to the level of cycling proficiency. Oxford cyclists are without doubt some of the most stupid and suicidal in existence.

Agreed......driving a car in and around Amsterdam is an education for an unsuspecting driver......the cyclist has priority.......Oxford cyclists behave as if they have priority over motor vehicles and that signage, traffic lights, rights of way etc. do not apply to cyclists.

Mic

 

[Bellow]

My understanding, when the proposal was under consideration, was that the police did not accept that there is a case for a 20mph near blanket speed limit and that they did not believe that it would serve any useful purpose......in fact, on the contrary in that it was likely to add to traffic congestion. This is not proven because both motorists and the police ignore the 20mph limit.

Mic

So if the police can pick and choose which laws they enforce, are the public now free to pick and choose which laws they want to obey or break?

 

[crockers]

So if the police can pick and choose which laws they enforce, are the public now free to pick and choose which laws they want to obey or break?

I thought they did already. Oops that's just the politicians.

 

[grober]

Maybe something to do with this?
[YOUTUBE]4kQwdaKCvBc[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Mercator]

Oxford have had a loony left Labour council for many years now. In their dreams everyone would live in council houses and travel on buses. The anti car policy has resulted in a sad decline in the city, especially as a retail centre.

 

[davethemus]

Oxford have had a loony left Labour council for many years now. In their dreams everyone would live in council houses and travel on buses. The anti car policy has resulted in a sad decline in the city, especially as a retail centre.

if you think new labour are of the left then

 

[Bellow]

I'l give it two more posts before this thread is closed as 'political'.

 

[davidjpowell]

One good way to deal with the KSI figures would be to attend to the level of cycling proficiency. Oxford cyclists are without doubt some of the most stupid and suicidal in existence.

I tried to find an Estate Agents in Oxford to pick up some keys. Their anti-car policy defeated Tom Tom, and I was left to find my own way in by instinct. Thinking like a spider, and never going straight on, by chance I got where I needed to be.

Cyclists however seemed to appear however right beside my front wing at any opportunity, and would take pleasure in heading behind a reversing car.

Park and ride can work well in Oxford, but not when I am picking up and later dropping off one set of keys.

 

[davethemus]

'...thinking like a spider...'

brilliant!

 

[GreetMe]

Thinking like a spider, and never going straight on, by chance I got where I needed to be.

Cyclists however seemed to appear however right beside my front wing at any opportunity, and would take pleasure in heading behind a reversing car.

They're a menace. They weave in and out of traffic and completely ignore the lights at junctions and pedestrian crossings.

 

[bassist]

Cambridge !!!!! now there's a name to conjur with.
Come and (try) to drive round this town with a City Council who has still to accept that the internal combustion engine may be here to stay. 20 mph - totally un-enforcible even if you could achieve it in some streets.

 

[Palfrem]

Maybe something to do with this?
[YOUTUBE]4kQwdaKCvBc[/YOUTUBE]

Think advert Funny - The truth about speeding - YouTube

 

[st13phil]

I seem to remember some kind of general statement (not specific to Oxford) that the Police would not enforce 20 mph zones, were there technical/legal issues e.g. car speedo accuracy at very low speeds?

DfT guidance was (is?) that 20mph zones should only be used in conjunction with traffic calming measures so that they are essentially "self enforcing". This is in recognition of the fact that the behaviour of pedestrians and other vulnerable road users is likely to be different if they think they're in a 20mph zone so high levels of compliance need to be achieved, and it also recognises that the enforcement burden would otherwise be massive.

Part of the consultation process whenever a speed limit change is proposed requires that advice be taken from the Police, who are expected to bring specialist knowledge to the process in the form of whether the proposed limit is suitable and whether it would represent an unworkable enforcement burden.

Oxford City Council are well known for being self-appointed experts on all matters relating to motorised transport and therefore decided that the DfT's guidance regarding traffic calming was only that, guidance, and could therefore be safely ignored. TVP objected to most (though not all) of the 20mph zones as it was their view that they were either unnecessary or would achieve low levels of natural compliance in the absence of other engineering measures, and thus create an impossible enforcement burden. In other words, they were a bad law. Oxford City Council knew best though, so ignored the advice and carried on regardless. Now they blame the Police for not enforcing limits that they were told would not be enforced before they put them in place. Priceless.