P38 range rover...

[guydewdney]

comfy, big, electric everything, good tow car (for my business)...
Y/N?

Disco instead - or Toyota landcruiser?

Want a diesel, 4x4, towability, luxurious (being used o the S class )

Comments / reccomendations welcome.

 

[andy_k]

landcruiser

 

[jaymanek]

Pajero/Shogun... or of course ML!

 

[Will]

Wouldn't recommend a P38 myself, heard too many horror stories. From the top of my head, engine problems (even worse on the V8s), air suspension is a nightmare, problems with air con/ventilation systems (blend motor(s) fail, nightmare/expensive to put right), and other miscellaneous problems that seemed to affect this model.

You're probably better off with something japanese if you want to keep the running costs down.

Good Luck

Will

 

[marc777]

You could get the VAT back on an L200 Warrior (leather and air etc) with negligible company car tax for private use.

In fact they've just bought out a new facelifted model?

But then not what you might call Luxurious !!

 

[dougal74]

Wouldn't recommend a P38 myself, heard too many horror stories. From the top of my head, engine problems (even worse on the V8s), air suspension is a nightmare, problems with air con/ventilation systems (blend motor(s) fail, nightmare/expensive to put right), and other miscellaneous problems that seemed to affect this model.

You're probably better off with something japanese if you want to keep the running costs down.

Good Luck

Will

I know several people who put up with all these faults (inlcuding one who has had the thing steel sprung because of the air-susp problems) because they absolutely love them, and these guys are not car fanatics. Partly because of the faults you can pick them up for a song.
Depends what you are towing, but for on road use my Lexus RX 300 was utterly brilliant.

 

[jimmy]

I nearly bought one a few weeks ago, it was a 2000/W 2.5DHSE, top of the range, stunning looking vehicle. Not terribly quick but sufficient and very comfortable. Don't be too put off by the horror stories, you generally only hear about the bad things. Would you by a Merc after reading this forum????

The air suspension is the only real problem I have heard of, there is a kit available for a few hundred pounds that allows you to manually pump up the springs to get you home.

The one I looked at had done 55K miles and the price was £8K, absolute bargain. I figured for that money you wouldn't mind spending a bit on it as long as it wouldn't leave you stranded.

They are so cheap now that some off road fanatics are buying them, cutting the back end off to make a 'bobtail', this makes a formiddable 4x4 for off road and competition use.

So why didn't I buy one? The image that is associated with it!

I have had Disco's in the past, not too bad but I would not buy another. Other than that you have a good selection of Japanese motors, Mitsubishis are good, seem to be reliable. I have been told to steer well clear of the Ford Ranger, evidently it is mostly Mazda but getting parts is horrendous. Also avoid Isuzu Trooper diesels, they are notorious for self destruction, and the engines are not cheap at about £7K.

Why not do what I did, I got an old Series 3 Landrover, great for local trips, having some fun, towing and carting stuff about in but lousy for long trips and get another car for everyday use.

 

[996jimbo]

I had a P38 before my Mercedes.

I thought it was great and only sold it because of the mileage - it was sell or commit to keeping it for 5 years.

Problems I had: suspension, suspension and, er, suspension. And a minor a/c problem.

The suspension will go wrong but there are plenty of specialist garages that will fix them for, well, some hundreds. But consider that all cars have their problems (rust, anyone?) so £300 every couple of years for something outside routine servicing is not unusual.

So far as the engines are concerned the 4.6 (but not 4.0) petrol engines had a problem with the cylinder liner not sealing to the head gasket. This lead to water getting behind the cylinder liner (errr, I think that was it) causing head gasket failure and knackering the top of the engine at around 70k miles. BIG bucks to repair. There was a fix which came in around 98/99 when BMW took over (ironic, bearing in mind the problems BMW had with V8's earlier in the 90's) and you can tell the later engine by the inlet/injection/throttle body configuration - look at a '95 engine and a '99 and you will see.

The reason I bang on about the petrol engine despite you wanting a diesel, is I would recommend going for a later 4.6 petrol and have it converted to LPG for £2k which you will save in petrol/diesel cost over 30k miles. I did. The diesel is sluggish. The petrol with or without LPG is no sports car but can move and is good off the line. LPG conversion also aids the resale.

The ride is far better than a Discovery but is scary for the first couple of corners until you get used to the body roll. I wouldn't convert the suspension to spring as the air suspension, when working, is good.

A Jeep is a good alternative - cheaper and the Grand Cherokee gets reasonably luxurious, if you like American cars that is.

 

[Vips]

I would recommend the 3.0D X5. You have the total package:- Luxury, reliabilty, economy....What more do you want?

 

[996jimbo]

I would recommend the 3.0D X5. You have the total package:- Luxury, reliabilty, economy....What more do you want?

Change from £20k?

 

[pammy]

I've had a Landcruiser a couple of times for work and it was fantastic to drive and for economy - far exceeded my expectations.

I was able to throw it around on the roads with ease, engine very responsive and surprisinlgy ecnomical.

Interior wear and tear wasn't all it could have been though and a 3 month old car looked like it was 3 years old

 

[guydewdney]

Change from £20k?

from the autotrader...

BMW X5 3.0 DIESEL AUTO,
01, 51 reg. 60,000 miles, Full BMW SH, 6 Disc CD, Aluminium Running Boards, Star Alloys, Tracker. Grey cloth upholstery.. £17,995
Telephone: 01983 740410 or 07776 150405
Distance: 85 miles
Price: £17,995

Too much... Im an under 10 grand kinda man..

What's Bad
There's an X5 in the Weybridge area with the registration X5 5NOB. Sums it up.

2000 JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE 3.1 TD Limited 5dr Auto Sw Diesel,
70,000 miles, X Reg, Quadra drive, in metallic green with black leather upholstery, This car is in pristine condition, has full service history at Lincoln Jeep, has Mot until Oct 06 and is Hpi clear. The specification includes; Climate control, Electric seats, Heated seats, Glass electric sunroof,Cruise control, Walnut trim, Remote alarm and locking, CD player, Alloy wheels, On board computer, Driver and passenger air bags. £9,895. Styrrup Green Cars Email

What's Good
Restyled, re-shelled Grand Cherokee. 15' 1" long by 7' 4" wide. 4.7 weighs 1,975kg and tows 3,500kg. Slightly more room inside than Cherokee. Range includes RHD 4.7 litre 217 bhp V8 from spring 1999. New 5-cylinder 3.1 litre VM turbodiesel with 283 lb ft torque for Y2K. VM diesel replaced by much better 5 cylinder 2.7 litre Mercedes common rail diesel (same as ML 270CDI) from February 2002.
What's Bad
Still comparatively small inside. Grille looks like the frightening central heating furnace in 'Home Alone'. Spate of aircon evaporator failures at 2 to 4 years old. £1,000 job to put right. In May 2005 CD based satnav was already 4 years out of date.



Joint 10th from Bottom with Chrysler Voyager in 144 car 2002 JD Power / What Car? Customer Satisfaction Survey of V and W reg cars. Chrysler Jeep least reliable of 31 makes of car in 2002 'Which?' reliability survey cars 2000 - 2002. Chrysler Jeeps had highest warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index (index 260.97 v/s lowest 31.93). Rated one of the most expensive 'Off Roaders' to run in 2003 Which survey. Jeep bottom of Reliability Index again for 2004 combining high average cost of repair of £509.31 with high 43.75 failures per 100 Warranty Direct policies.

2000 MERCEDES-BENZ ML 270 ,
W reg. 5 door, Tiptronic, auto, diesel, silver, full leather, luxury pack, privacy glass, Sat Nav, AC, CL, electric mirrors/windows, heated seats, Motd Sep 06, very good condition, NO AGENCIES. £10,500. ono
{but prone to being crap cos they are built in the USA at this age...)

What's Bad
Eclipsed in the snob stakes by the BMW X5. American build quality not quite up to Stuttgart's (Austrian build better than American) and some structural build quality problems emerged, such as missing spot welds. Very tall, so take care on corners. Hideous optional external rear wheel carrier that blots out rearward vision from the interior mirror. Nothing like as good as a Range Rover off-road. Quite a few complaints from Telegraph readers about the inability of MB dealers to rectify faults. Isolated complaints of failures of 6-speed manual gearboxes fitted to 270CDI. Parts slow coming through for the steering recall. Multi section sliding steel sunroof is highly prone to failure. If the motor on one side fails, the other motor skews the panels and the whole thing seizes up and costs a fortune to fix. 5th from bottom out of 137 models in 2003 Top Gear survey. New second generation model from summer 2005. Cat converter casings on R to X reg prone to splitting and MB wants £1,000 each for replacements. Came 3rd = from bottom in 2005 JD Power/What Car Survey of 23,000 cars reg Sep 2002 to Aug 2003 with satisfaction score of 71.2%.

2001 MITSUBISHI SHOGUN Sport 2.5 TD Equippe 5dr Sport Diesel Sw,
74,000 miles, Silver, privacy glass, alloy wheels and front fogs. Full service history. Under dealer warranty until March '06, 4 months MOT, 10 months tax. Only 2 owners from new. Full electrics - windows, sunroof, mirrors. Remote central locking and alarm, air-con, Alpine CD stereo. Side steps, roof rails. New brake pads and exhaust, 2 new tyres. £9,250. ono
Telephone: 07782 504798
Distance: 9 miles
Price: £9,250 ono

What's Bad
Average warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index (index 101.16 v/s lowest 31.93). Average warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index (index 101.16 v/s lowest 31.93). Link:- www.reliabilityindex.co.uk
What to Watch Out For
Beware of grey imports and RHD Pajeros stolen in another country. The Pajero is Europe's most stolen and unrecovered vehicle.

2000 TOYOTA LANDCRUISER COLORADO 3.0 VX 5DR AUTOMATIC
Diesel, Metallic Blue. Cloth Trim, 16 inch alloy wheels, Up to 300 4x4's in stock all in one place, ABS brakes, immobiliser, Central Locking, Electric Mirrors, Electric Windows (Front & Rear), Power-Steering, Radio, Rear Head-Rests, Wood Dash Trim,All used cars subject to 61 admin fee. £9,000.

(anyone know the difference between a colorado and a prado?)

What's Bad
3-door version dropped September 1998. Cylinder heads of early 3.0 diesels are prone to failure and cost £2,000 to replace. Toyota replaced many FOC and solved the problem by 1999. Cylinder heads of diesels still prone to dveloping hairline cracks after 70-80k. Problem acknowledged by Toyota with extended 5 year warranty on heads.
What to Watch Out For
Check history very carefully and don't buy from itinerants.

hmmm - somthing tpo think about. I'd be lookign at running on bio diesel anyway..

 

[IanA2]

And out of left field comes.......... the Murano.......I've heard some some good reports....

 

[guydewdney]

hmmm had a blat in a few cars - anyone got an opinion about a toyota amazon? 4.2 diesel?

landy was awsomely cr*p - at £19K, with the latest diesel engine, could barely pull the skin off rice pudding. noisy, clattery, rough.

colorado better, still sluggish. bit plasticky.

havent driven a shogun yet... seem popular though.