Pagoda Engine Rebuild Recomendation

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Dudlow

New Member
Joined
May 28, 2016
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6
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250SL
Hi, I'm a newbie Mercedes owner who needs a little advice.

I have a 1967 250SL which may need an engine rebuild . Can I please have a few pointers about the merits or otherwise of sending to the well known firms, or can someone point me in another direction. Any advice would be welcome.
The rest of the car is in excellent condition.
It needs to be in the South East ideally.
Thanks.
 
Try Roger Edwards Motors in Amershan. Can't speak highly enough of them. They did my 65 230SL
 
Thanks for that.

Obviously I have come across Roger Edwards while researching. Many positive comments.

Can anyone comment re the quality of the work and did it all pan out as expected, (who has had an engine rebuilt by them), and any kind of ball park price ?
Currently the engine runs, but sounds awful, a bit like a noisy knocking diesel. This came on very quickly, not long after having the head gasket replaced.

Thanks.
 
Can't comment on a full rebuild as I only had an engine rebalance. Came back running superbly. Whilst out had a full concourse engine bay carried out. See pics
 

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Try Roger Edwards Motors in Amershan. Can't speak highly enough of them. They did my 65 230SL

I work in the offices next to them they always have quality cars in there which I guess reflects the quality of their work
 
Colin Ferns in Richmond 0208 332 7660.

They really know pagodas inside out and restore them regularly.

Attached is a photo of a pagoda engine they are just rebuilding at the moment
 
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Well I was only saying that I have not seen a Pagoda on the road recently,great you have one in good condition but a crook engine,what you are looking for is not the car to be restored but a complete engine rebuild,I would look at engine rebuild companies,they will machine the parts on site,a few years ago I used a Basildon Essex company and you could not fault them,crank and bores,conrods all the valves recut,I do not know either of the companies mention in other posts,find out if they machine the engines themselves if not why pay a middle man
 
The car is in concourse condition, including the engine bay, but has had a sudden (major) issue. Still starts and runs, but it sounds dreadful.
 

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Lloyd Marx for a wild shot. The freight may be a killer though.
 
The car is in concourse condition, including the engine bay, but has had a sudden (major) issue. Still starts and runs, but it sounds dreadful.

Honestly Colin is the man for this.
 
find out if they machine the engines themselves if not why pay a middle man
Because it is the experienced middle man that will know all of the idiosyncrasies of the M129 engine that your average machine shop will not.
There are many ways to build an engine, especially one that is 100% reliant upon correct assembly and perhaps more importantly, installation for best performance.
Dudlow is doing the right thing in looking for someone with a proven track record with these cars and there are few choices if you want it done properly.
The problem Dudlow will have is that these guys are generally extremely busy and he'll be lucky to see his engine done before the summer is over.
 
Thanks for that.

Obviously I have come across Roger Edwards while researching. Many positive comments.

Can anyone comment re the quality of the work and did it all pan out as expected, (who has had an engine rebuilt by them), and any kind of ball park price ?
Currently the engine runs, but sounds awful, a bit like a noisy knocking diesel. This came on very quickly, not long after having the head gasket replaced.

Thanks.

Before you have it rebuild check if they used the right size bore gasket because that could cause that noise .
 
Because it is the experienced middle man that will know all of the idiosyncrasies of the M129 engine that your average machine shop will not.
There are many ways to build an engine, especially one that is 100% reliant upon correct assembly and perhaps more importantly, installation for best performance.
Dudlow is doing the right thing in looking for someone with a proven track record with these cars and there are few choices if you want it done properly.
The problem Dudlow will have is that these guys are generally extremely busy and he'll be lucky to see his engine done before the summer is over.

Apreciate your input.
Totally agree with you, and having spent 12 months looking for the right car, I was looking forward to enjoying it over the summer months.
That may well be out of the window now.
With that accepted I now want an engine that will give reliability and longevity.
 
The car is now with a well known specialist.

The cam cover is off and after inspection it can be seen that the cam had seized on the end holder (wrong word I know) due to lack of lubrication, then freed, but is severely worn as a result.
When I was driving the car there was a screech then the engine cut out. It would not turn over (I thought battery was faulty), but after about 20 mins (i.e. after the cam had cooled and shrunk) it started , but really tappety and noisy.
The car had had the head gasket replaced about 75 miles prior, and the obvious question is was it related or just bad timing. No blame has been allocated yet, but there are significant costs moving forward.
The same garage that did the gasket is doing the cam.

There is a pipe that runs above the cam with holes in, spraying oil to keep it lubricated. It would appear that the hole at the end was not spraying the jet of oil correctly. It is at the end of the pipe run, so if any crap was in the system it could block the end hole ?
New cam and associated parts are on the way from Germany. The main thing is to fathom out exactly why it happened, and make sure its not going to repeat itself.
 
The FORD pinto single overhead cam engine used to suffer the same fate. The cam lubricating pipe was centrally fed but the holes tended to block if the oil wasn't changed regularly. It was relatively easy to change requiring only a cam cover gasket and a new oil feed pipe---being a FORD it was cheap as chips to replace to the extent I would swop it out so every 12,000 mile. Together with one of the new synthetic engine oils it made engine reliability much greater.
 
Bits of old head gasket falling through the oil galleries in the block while it was being removed/scraped and later moving their way through the system to lodge in said oil feed pipe by any chance...??
Happens to the best of them. :(
 
The car is now with a well known specialist.

The cam cover is off and after inspection it can be seen that the cam had seized on the end holder (wrong word I know) due to lack of lubrication, then freed, but is severely worn as a result.
When I was driving the car there was a screech then the engine cut out. It would not turn over (I thought battery was faulty), but after about 20 mins (i.e. after the cam had cooled and shrunk) it started , but really tappety and noisy.
The car had had the head gasket replaced about 75 miles prior, and the obvious question is was it related or just bad timing. No blame has been allocated yet, but there are significant costs moving forward.
The same garage that did the gasket is doing the cam.

There is a pipe that runs above the cam with holes in, spraying oil to keep it lubricated. It would appear that the hole at the end was not spraying the jet of oil correctly. It is at the end of the pipe run, so if any crap was in the system it could block the end hole ?
New cam and associated parts are on the way from Germany. The main thing is to fathom out exactly why it happened, and make sure its not going to repeat itself.

Dudlow

I feel your pain here. If in any doubt see my 124 restoration thread. I have a bent crank. This happened after considerable monies being spent on a very large/prolonged restoration. 1st big run out and the car cut out then started to rattle - now this.

Finding the root cause may well prove a challenge (for us both).

I wish you luck with the re-build. I am sure you will end up with a car that you can enjoy for many years.
 
Incidentally, you really ought to go to this forum for everything you could possibly want to know about 113s
Pagoda SL Group
Also, when the camshaft and bearings are replaced be sure to change rockers and rocker posts too.
Did you have new guides when the head gasket was done? If not, did the garage that did the work recommend it? If they didn't then you should seriously consider the merits of entrusting your car to them. Pagodas really do need a very experienced specialist to get right.
 
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Nothing was mentioned about new guides (unless they are little round things, in which case they were done)....... is this a major problem now ?

It has not been suggested about new rockers and posts either, although they all look fine to my untrained eye. The cam and bearings have not yet been fitted as we are awaiting parts.

As you can tell I am not very mechanically gifted. A basic service is my limit.
 
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