Pakistan polio campaign halted after killings

brucemillar

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Yes I read this with horror and disbelief. There is a suggestion that the Taliban believe that the US were using similar programs to gain intelligence in their hunt for Bin-Laden hence why they have taken this stance. Whatever the rationale behind it? To target people who have dedicated themselves to helping other and preventing the spead of a curable condition deserves our contempt.
 

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Awful...but worse when you realise that the US did indeed use the cover of a vaccination program previously in their hunt for Bin Laden...these poor vaccinators have reaped what was previously sown.
 
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True and if the CIA did employ this degree of cynicism in their hunt for Bin Laden they bear a measure of responsibility for the deaths of these people. :eek:Such is the duplicity we humans are capable of to gain our objectives. Balanced against this however would the concern of the Taliban for the population they would appear to wish to speak for. On balance would the undoubted health benefits to thousands of local children be worth the risk of " possible infiltration or intelligence gathering"? They obviously thought not! :( Or perhaps the fact that a value system with all its inherent flaws and vices which removes the risk of a terrible disease from an entire generation of children might find a greater resonance in the populace than a bunch of bearded guys quoting their own particular interpretation of some dusty religious texts might have something to do with it?:rolleyes:
 

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Yet another example of what happens if you give savages guns. I also believe the Taliban have them too.
 
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grober

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Yet another example of what happens if you give savages guns. I also believe the Taliban have them too.

The point being that the people[ all women?] who were killed were not armed with AK47's they were armed with knowledge, compassion and concern for their fellow man-- apparently far more dangerous weapons than firearms to the forces of darkness and ignorance wherever they are found. :dk:
 
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Dryce

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these poor vaccinators have reaped what was previously sown.

I have no idea whether the US or ISI or Mossad or the Belgians for that matter used the programme as a basis of intelligence gathering. It doesn't really matter whether they did/do or not because these killings are about intimidation and any excuse is just a cover story to justify to the locals and the misdirect the western hand wringers.

Why were these people out there in the first place? Because the country is so ****** up in terms of mentality that it still has a polio problem in the 21st century.

The warped intent behind the killing is to stop the vaccination programme. And the killings are about intimidation and control.
 

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I have no idea whether the US or ISI or Mossad or the Belgians for that matter used the programme as a basis of intelligence gathering. It doesn't really matter whether they did/do or not because these killings are about intimidation and any excuse is just a cover story to justify to the locals and the misdirect the western hand wringers.

Why were these people out there in the first place? Because the country is so ****** up in terms of mentality that it still has a polio problem in the 21st century.

The warped intent behind the killing is to stop the vaccination programme. And the killings are about intimidation and control.

I, like you , have no idea either. But why would the US (or anyone else) give them any excuse to justify what they have just done?

Yes, they probably didn't need an excuse...but they were handed one. And yes, what better way to intimidate the population than to kill the most innocent of all...those (women) providing a cure for a dreadful disease.
 

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In a civilsed nation this acts would be a catalyst to end even the shred of support the extremist groups would have. Even warring nations soldiers do not shoot red cross band wearing combat medics (not even the Wermaht).

Not pointing fingers but this shows a society firmly set in the 7th centrury AD but with modern guns and alarmingly nukes.
 

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I, like you , have no idea either. But why would the US (or anyone else) give them any excuse to justify what they have just done?

Simple they used a vaccination programme to gather blood samples and therefore DNA to certify his relatives in the area. Once they found his daughters then it was easy for Seal Team Six to come knocking on the right door
 

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Simple they used a vaccination programme to gather blood samples and therefore DNA to certify his relatives in the area. Once they found his daughters then it was easy for Seal Team Six to come knocking on the right door

I wasn't asking why they (the US) had done it (that's obvious), but why give the Taliban an excuse for what they have just done (murder 5 women).
 

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I wasn't asking why they (the US) had done it (that's obvious), but why give the Taliban an excuse for what they have just done (murder 5 women).

The 'excuse' is just a convenience. Nothing more.

They just invent something else if they want - such as saying the vaccination programme is being used to infect or manipulate peoples' health in some underhand way.
 

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Simple they used a vaccination programme to gather blood samples and therefore DNA to certify his relatives in the area. Once they found his daughters then it was easy for Seal Team Six to come knocking on the right door

That technique used once...

I wasn't asking why they (the US) had done it (that's obvious), but why give the Taliban an excuse for what they have just done (murder 5 women).

could be used again.
If the Taliban believed they were being targetted as was Bin Laden then there behaviour here is to be expected.

This one goes back to the USA for putting cross-hairs on the back of every humanitarian worker. And the USA wonders why the world doesn't trust them.

When all humanitarian efforts cease - the Taliban have won. And the US only got BL.
 
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This one goes back to the USA for putting cross-hairs on the back of every humanitarian worker. And the USA wonders why the world doesn't trust them.

While in principle that argument holds water it falls down when examined in detail. Its the difference between a reason and an excuse for acting in a certain way. Taking blood samples for DNA tracing in the name of a hepatitis program could indeed yield intelligence information but how exactly feeding a child a sugar lump coated with a inactivated live virus as an oral vaccine would do so I don't know. :confused: There has been resistance to vaccination campaigns in the past but almost without exception they have at their source a group of people whose agenda is driven by political power and influence rather then a concern for the people involved. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/20/international/asia/20polio.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0
 

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This is about people who believe that women who seek an education should be killed. That is without the the intervention of the US, UK or anybody else. As said before, any excuse would be found to murder people who do not share their views.

Rewind your watches 1500 years and I guess you are almost on a par with where they wish us all to regress back to.
 

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While in principle that argument holds water it falls down when examined in detail. Its the difference between a reason and an excuse for acting in a certain way. Taking blood samples for DNA tracing in the name of a hepatitis program could indeed yield intelligence information but how exactly feeding a child a sugar lump coated with a inactivated live virus as an oral vaccine would do so I don't know. :confused: There has been resistance to vaccination campaigns in the past but almost without exception they have at their source a group of people whose agenda is driven by political power and influence rather then a concern for the people involved. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/20/international/asia/20polio.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0

Report I heard today was that the reason behind the killings was "a US plot to sterilise Muslims"...

Whilst you can believe the US capable of most things who, with any degree of common sense, would think that such an excuse would be met with any degree of credibility?
 

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My opinion on Pakistan at the moment (and I'm sure plenty will disagree, but it's something I believe strongly in having family there).
1st thing I'll say is as a Muslim, I see nothing Islamic in what the Taliban stand for - Islam does not prohibit women getting an education or a career. Some of the most prominent women in Islamic history were business women.
If you are genuinely interested in what the Taliban stand for, then do some research on Wahabism - this so called sect of Islam goes against many basic Islamic teachings, but once people face atrocities, it's usually extremes they turn to so and Wahabism is one of those extremes.

Pakistan has had more civilians killed in the so called war on terror than all Western countries combined. When that happens, it's inevitable that people will find someone to blame. In this case, justifiably so, it's America. The behaviour of the so called world police would be classed as terrorism if any other country in the world was doing it. Most of the problems faced by the Pakistani civilians in the Northern fontiers did not exist before America invasion of Afghanistan. All they have done is destabalise a nuclear power. But that's what has always happened to 3rd world countries - divide and conquer.
The worst thing that has happened in Pakistan recently was the removal of General Musharaf (he wasn't perfect, but was the best of a bad bunch - way better and more humanitarian than any of the so called politicians running the country today). Before people start going on about democracy, do some research on the country. You can't have democracy in a country where people's votes can be bought for the price of a few meals or under the threat of violence. While Musharaf was in power he set up alot of Schools and colleges for the poor and gave scholarships everywhere else. He also shut alot of the Madrassas that preach hate. One of the first things that the current regime did was shut all the new schools and reopen the Madrassas. Keep the population uneducated and its easier to manipulate them. Things are that bad now that very few places have gas or electricity for more than a couple of days a week. The prices of food are ridiculous and violence is everywhere.
Musharaf was trying to build a "middle class" in a country of extremely rich or poor extremes. I would rather an army general who has humanitarian views have control of a nuclear trigger than a gangster.
I could write pages on this, but won't. It's hard to be non judgemental when family and friends have been killed with no justification at all.

Just to clarify - I don't agree with violence and I certainly don't believe that any innocent people killed in Western countries are worth more than those killed in 3rd world countries.
 

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1st thing I'll say is as a Muslim, I see nothing Islamic in what the Taliban stand for

Thank you EVL.
I hope I don't cause offence with this, but a Muslim like yourself denouncing the Taliban is what has been lacking IMO. Your other comments are appreciated also.
 

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Thank you EVL.
I hope I don't cause offence with this, but a Muslim like yourself denouncing the Taliban is what has been lacking IMO. Your other comments are appreciated also.

No offence taken. You'd be surprised at how many Muslims don't agree with the Taliban or Wahabism/Salafis. Thankfully these evil people are a minority.
Unfortunately that doesn't make interesting reading or sell newspapers.
 

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Surely this so-called 'sect' Wahhabism, is actually the official and established religion of the richest and most powerful Islamic nation, ie Saudi Arabia, and has been since it's founding.
The 'religious police' or mutaween are state funded, and their duties include -

"ensuring that drugs and alcohol are not being traded.
checking that women wear the abaya, a traditional all-enveloping black cloak.
making sure that men and women who are spotted together in public are related.
ensuring women do not smoke in public.
formerly, enforcing the ban on camera phones. This ban was enacted out of a fear that men would use them to secretly photograph women and publish them on the Internet without the consent of the subjects. The ban was enacted in April 2004 but was overturned in December that same year.[7]
preventing the population from engaging in "frivolous" Western customs such as Valentine's Day.
The punishment for such offences is severe, often involving beatings and humiliation, and foreigners are not excluded from arrest. The mutaween encourage people to inform on others they know who are suspected of acting un-virtuously, and to punish such activities."
Wiki


Hardly a 'sect'
 

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