Panorama: Britain's Killer Roads?

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st13phil

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According to the police watchdog, "a reduction in dedicated traffic officers has left British roads more dangerous". And in other news, bears have been found to defecate in the woods :rolleyes:

The decades of concentration on speed enforcement by fixed cameras, or vans parked on over-bridges and in laybys, instead of having TrafPol patrols out on the road stopping, advising and issuing sanctions when warranted has, imo, lead to a decline in driving standards. When will the penny drop that "good driving" requires more than blind adherence to arbitrary speed limits?

Program on BBC1 tonight at 7:30pm. I'll be astonished if it doesn't reduce safe driving to "not speeding".

 
The roads aren't any more dangerous because of a lack of policing. A lack of road repairs and more / deeper pot holes maybe.
There are more ignorant and arrogant gits using the roads though, if that's what they mean.

Regular retraining of road users would help a lot in my view.
 
Well we all knew that many of the static speed cameras were not working and for many areas the mobile vans have been scaled right back,the last mobile van I have seen was about 4 months ago on the A road between the coast and Norwich,the reasom this has happened is because the rules were changed about who got the revenue created by these cameras,as I and many others said that these were not speed cameras but greed cameras it had nothing to do with safety just money,as for the police,well they can only do so much we have people stopping the motorways and glueing themselves to trains and getting away with it taking vast numbers of police to just stand there and stop the trafic so the people blocking the roads do not get injured,a fact is in Essex was that when the mobile camera vans were about they had a serving police officer in them on his days off aint life grand.
 
There are more ignorant and arrogant gits using the roads though, if that's what they mean.

Regular retraining of road users would help a lot in my view.
Absent formal regular retraining, TrafPol patrols were very effective addressing the problem of “ignorant and arrogant gits”.
 
Program on BBC1 tonight at 7:30pm. I'll be astonished if it doesn't reduce safe driving to "not speeding".
They won't have the money for this sh1t now their antiquated funding mechanism won't be paying for their bullsh1t staff and their expenses 🥳
 
According to the police watchdog, "a reduction in dedicated traffic officers has left British roads more dangerous"...

I don't disagree, but this lacks some statistical validity.

If you ask the police (or a related party with vested interests), they will tell you that crime is on the rise because there are less officers on the beat. HHS hospitals will tell you that the problem with the health care services is that they don't have enough staff. The rail unions warn that we need more rear guards.... etc.

A correlation between an increase in road deaths and a reduction in police patrol cars does not necessarily indicate a cause and effect relationship.

I am not saying it's not the case, and it's intuitively likely, but we need to apply some scientific rigour to the data and statistically validate it before accepting the conclusion that is being offered.
 

In my opinion the drivers from whose cars the footage was taken in 0:10-0:16 (white van merging) and 0:18-0:21 (silver car in lane) need to be sent to hazard perception training... and also they have used their horns illegal, technically speaking. Not sure why they made their dash cam footage public in the first instance... I would have been ashamed to do that. We need more police, but we also need better drivers.
 
People said they were scared to drive the A82. What is wrong with them? I've never been scared there, just enjoy the road and scenery.
 
A correlation between an increase in road deaths and a reduction in police patrol cars does not necessarily indicate a cause and effect relationship.

During the shutdowns for the unmentionable, there were several views expressed here that driving standards had markedly deteriorated. I observed that myself and assumed it was for the most part down to the fact that the sort of people who would ignore lock down rules and continue to drive might also not be the most careful drivers and they were taking advantage of quieter roads to drive hard and exceed speed limits. But is it possible that there is some other general effect. After all there were large scale effects, for example resignations due to changing views on life style vs work.

The increase in resignations is a lock down effect that was not limited to one country, so I wondered if there was any correlation in the US for example to show roads had become more dangerous during the pandemic. It seems there was, as road fatalities increased during lock down in spite if fewer miles driven. Contributing factors are suggested to have been risky driving behaviors including failure to wear a seatbelt, speeding, and drinking while driving.

2020 Fatality Data Show Increased Traffic Fatalities During Pandemic | NHTSA
 
A correlation between an increase in road deaths and a reduction in police patrol cars does not necessarily indicate a cause and effect relationship.
Absolutely correct to raise the point that correlation doesn't equal causation. However...

Poor driving (and you identified examples of it in post #7) will continue unless corrected, in part because the driver often doesn't recognise their own deficiencies. A correction mechanism that used to exist was TrafPol patrols who would witness those sort of antics, stop the vehicle concerned and either offer advice or report the driver for sanction. Likewise, the driver impaired through drink or drugs will only be detected before they cause carnage by the Mk1 eyeball, so absent TrafPol patrols how do those drivers get detected? One only needs to look at the number of drivers still using hand-held mobile phones while driving, despite the ever-increasing penalty for doing so, to make the connection that they continue to do so because the chances of being caught are miniscule.

There was an interesting statistic in the program that caught my attention because, imo, it neatly illustrated the primary problem with the current approach to road safety. It was stated that "more drivers than ever are prosecuted for speeding, yet the numbers killed or seriously injured on the roads is increasing". If ever there was an example of the old adage "If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail", that was it - yet the connection is still not made.
 
I find on pretty much every journey I need to take brisk evasive action or something very close an emergency stop due to people pulling out without looking or being aware of what's going on.

On motorway when I'm traveling in outside lane, and cars joining m'way just swerve right out into lane 3 at 55-60mph.

Junctions in traffic are terrible, with people pulling out right in front of me, 30, 40, 60 mph. Can be in either direction, but particularly from my right through heavy traffic as is the road must be clear because they can't see through the moving cars, only to have me nearly poo my pants and emergency stop (brake to slow speed) to avoid a collision.

None of these instances are due to speeding, so using the 'speeding' enforcement hammer to club these nails in doesn't work very well (at all!).
 
5 year retesting for all. If by the 7th year a retest hasn't been passed licence suspended pending a pass.

Those w/o the requisite skills found out.

Those with poor eyesight same.

Those believing they have the right to force their way onto a M'way might learn different.

Updating to understand the many changes since they passed their test more likely. That includes me, what the heck are these many chevron type road marking supposed to achieve. Everyone just goes into them when it suits anyway.

Not sure they could teach us how to escape from a broken down mo mo on assmart m'way though.
 
I find on pretty much every journey I need to take brisk evasive action or something very close an emergency stop due to people pulling out without looking or being aware of what's going on.
Either that is a massive exaggeration, or I would suggest that you need to develop your anticipation and awareness skills.
 
Basic human nature is Carrot and Stick.

No matter how big the stick is, if there is no one on the roads to wield the stick the people who don't give a toss will drive however they like.

On my daily commute there are 3 side roads that I turn out of into main roads. The queue for each is usually at least 10 cars. Everyday I see £ankers who cannot be bothered to queue, drive on the wrong side of the road then nip in at the front. They know exactly what they are doing and just don't give a toss because there is no body there with the "stick". Its only a matter of time before I see a head on / fatality.
 
The issue of road safety is a very complex one with many variables, I hate the way the media point the finger straight at the police and speed cameras as the sole cause of this.
I find speed cameras can do more harm than good in some cases. (not all and they are needed in some cases!)
Panic breaking, people constantly looking for them instead of where they are going. Plus the scourge of mobile phone users, massive infotainment screens etc..

Take the motorway.. I used to drive up and down with no issues, now its a nightmare with the overhead gantries giving odd messages, constantly changing speed limits and panicked drivers who are unsure on what the right thing to do is and the constant fear they might have crept over the limit at the last speed camera. I see it all the time... You can almost feel the stress emanating from the people using it.

You have to be extra vigilant all the time that some body is going to panic brake, swerve or do something unpredictable.

Same goes for these incredibly complicated junctions they have created. Fine if you drive all the time or regularly. But again I see people not used to them or new to them having no clue as to which lane to be in and doing last minute maneuvers which helps nobody. I don't blame them. Its just the nature of the beast they have created.

Roundabouts used to be standard, now its a lottery as to which lane is dedicated to straight on or left or second left etc

All this adds up to people making last minute decisions, on dark fogging winters evenings bad things are bound to happen.

And to add to this the government/authorities want to mix pedestrians and cyclists and horses and wildlife and who knows what into the mix.. Its never going to end well...
 
The issue of road safety is a very complex one with many variables, I hate the way the media point the finger straight at the police and speed cameras as the sole cause of this.
I couldn't agree more.
Roundabouts used to be standard, now its a lottery as to which lane is dedicated to straight on or left or second left etc
This is one of my pet peeves.

There is a roundabout on a main trunk road not far from where I live that was "improved" about 5 years ago "to increase its capacity". The improvements consisted of adding traffic signals, spiral lane markings with defined direction arrows, and widening one primary entrance from two lanes to three that then immediately leads to the most-used straight ahead exit that is two lanes merging over a shorter distance than prior to the "improvements" into one. The net result has been to increase the number of collisions on that roundabout from approximately zero to a number where there is now a clamour for further changes.

Frankly, the standard of highways engineering seems to have declined at a similar rate to driving standards.
 
Frankly, the standard of highways engineering seems to have declined at a similar rate to driving standards.
and if designs up and down the country were more consistent it would help reduce confusion.
 

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