Park Assists Disabled on all new Mercedes help!

barian

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Two issues here. Self parking - cars are no longer allowed to steer unless they can sense that you’re touching the steering wheel. New E Class and S Class have a pressure sensing layer under the steering wheel leather which navigates this issue.

Removal of parking pilot system happened between summer and autumn last year from model year changes

Second issue is the activate lane keeping assist in some models, which is having to be turned off prior to delivery of new vehicles. From April 1st there’s a registration embargo on these cars until the recall is undertaken. It is predominantly on vehicles in the compact car range that don’t have the driving assistance package. As far as I’m aware it’s because there’s no audible warning with that system, only visual and steering vibration. With the driving assistance pack you get audible warning along with blind spot assist, so vehicles with that option should be unaffected

Both are a result of new UN worldwide legislation and I’m guessing won’t be turned on again until all vehicles in the range receive updated steering and lane keeping systems

This is interesting, thank you. However, the explanation does not make entire sense to me. When the self-parking system is in operation it requires hands to be off the wheel and, if the wheels is grasped, the system is interrupted. This is the case with other manufacturer's implementations (e.g. BMW) that are still being sold. So there may be an issue about the MB force sensing system reliably detecting when the driver intervenes by grasping the wheel, but it is not immediately obvious. On a point of detail, I think the newer sensing system is capacitance rather than pressure sensing based.

My wife's recently delivered BMW 3 series with the driving assistance package does not provide any audible warnings in similar circumstances, so I doubt that there is any legislative requirement for them. My reading of the UN regulation is that it is not as specific as that about how systems should be designed. It does require a safety case to be produced and, as I have said before, this is where I suspect MB is having difficulties which other manufacturers are not encountering. But what they are is anybody's guess in the absence of a clear explanation from MB.

Have you seen any indication that MB might be intending to disable any of these systems on older cars as a "quality enhancement"?
 

markjay

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This is interesting, thank you. However, the explanation does not make entire sense to me. When the self-parking system is in operation it requires hands to be off the wheel and, if the wheels is grasped, the system is interrupted. This is the case with other manufacturer's implementations (e.g. BMW) that are still being sold. So there may be an issue about the MB force sensing system reliably detecting when the driver intervenes by grasping the wheel, but it is not immediately obvious. On a point of detail, I think the newer sensing system is capacitance rather than pressure sensing based.

My wife's recently delivered BMW 3 series with the driving assistance package does not provide any audible warnings in similar circumstances, so I doubt that there is any legislative requirement for them. My reading of the UN regulation is that it is not as specific as that about how systems should be designed. It does require a safety case to be produced and, as I have said before, this is where I suspect MB is having difficulties which other manufacturers are not encountering. But what they are is anybody's guess in the absence of a clear explanation from MB.

Have you seen any indication that MB might be intending to disable any of these systems on older cars as a "quality enhancement"?
JBD works for a dealer and helpfully and kindly posted the official position on this matter (presumably as communicated by MB to dealers).

I see your point, but just to be clear that you are not aiming this at the messenger....
 

barian

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JBD works for a dealer and helpfully and kindly posted the official position on this matter (presumably as communicated by MB to dealers).

I see your point, but just to be clear that you are not aiming this at the messenger....
Of course not, and I did thank him or her for the post. In fairness, it is worth pointing out that the inclusion of "as far as I am aware" in the subject post does tend to suggest that MB has not provided a full explanation.
 

JBD

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This is interesting, thank you. However, the explanation does not make entire sense to me. When the self-parking system is in operation it requires hands to be off the wheel and, if the wheels is grasped, the system is interrupted. This is the case with other manufacturer's implementations (e.g. BMW) that are still being sold. So there may be an issue about the MB force sensing system reliably detecting when the driver intervenes by grasping the wheel, but it is not immediately obvious. On a point of detail, I think the newer sensing system is capacitance rather than pressure sensing based.

My wife's recently delivered BMW 3 series with the driving assistance package does not provide any audible warnings in similar circumstances, so I doubt that there is any legislative requirement for them. My reading of the UN regulation is that it is not as specific as that about how systems should be designed. It does require a safety case to be produced and, as I have said before, this is where I suspect MB is having difficulties which other manufacturers are not encountering. But what they are is anybody's guess in the absence of a clear explanation from MB.

Have you seen any indication that MB might be intending to disable any of these systems on older cars as a "quality enhancement"?
It’s simply cars registered from April onwards that have to have these systems turned off

the new wheel is touch sensitive, see below:

 

barian

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It’s simply cars registered from April onwards that have to have these systems turned off

the new wheel is touch sensitive, see below:

Thank you. And thank you for the link. It doesn't much matter, but "touch sensitive" could mean either pressure or capacitance sensing. For the E class, it seems to be the latter - see: From a simple tiller to a capacitive command centre | marsMediaSite
 

Inkytog

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So out of interest - is this something that could be re-coded back on by someone who codes MB cars? Is this a straight forward software thing do we think?
 

whitenemesis

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So out of interest - is this something that could be re-coded back on by someone who codes MB cars? Is this a straight forward software thing do we think?
And if it could, would they? Wouldn't it be similar to coding video in motion?
 

Inkytog

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And hw would you go about declaring this 'mod' to your insurer......?
And how would they know? And how would they be able to see that park assist was the culprit over and above driver or human error or anything else?

It makes no sense. If pre 2019 cara have the system and it’s ok to use and MB haven’t disabled it why is a 2021 car different.

if I hadn’t changed my car- used part assist and had to then make a claim for something that had occurred due to using park assist why is my new car with park assist disabled suddenly illegal? Makes absolutely no sense.

a blanket deactivation of park assist in all cars would make more sense - leaving older cars with it and new ones without doesn’t.
 

markjay

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Either way, it's near-hypothetical, because unlike VIM, I really don't see the Barry Brigade flocking to MB specialists to get their Active Parking Assist reactivated (assuming this was even possible)... at best, you'll be able to buy off Ali Express an OBDII dongle that uploads to the car a hacked version of the relevant ECU software, which will get overwritten anyway the next time the dealer carries-out a software upgrade.
 

Inkytog

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Not a good start for your relationship with your insurer, if you ask me... :D
It’s hypothetical.
what sort of relationship do people have with their insurers? Take them out for dinner and drinks? Perhaps a spa day?
 

markjay

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It’s hypothetical.
what sort of relationship do people have with their insurers? Take them out for dinner and drinks? Perhaps a spa day?

It's a game... you declare everything and anything, and when you have a claim and they try to catch you out, you win...
 

markjay

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'What constitutes a modification?

Unhelpfully, insurers have two definitions for modifications. Some consider that a vehicle is modified “if it has been changed in any way since it was first supplied by the vehicle manufacturer”. So if your car hasn’t been tinkered with since it left the factory, you should be fine.'


They'll throw a Reg15 at you in a heartbeat - and they've been known to go uber-silly at times:


Life's just too short to argue with your insurer about undeclared mods... personal opinion.
 

AW8

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Developing the chat re pedantic insurers.....Some would take a stance that re-instating features to original delivered spec is not a modification. This then raises the question as to whether deactivation of safety &/or convenience features is a modification...(N.B. - I used the term modification NOT upgrade - Insurers usually have definitions of key policy words in t&c's).

Personally I would be reluctant to engage with an insurer re this & when allegedly some MB dealers are inconsistent &/or unclear.

Anyone who has ever tried to discuss mods with an insurer knows some insurers can seem illogical. For various reasons some choose to not engage re minor spec changes.

Many won't be aware of an insurance issue unless insurer raises it during a claim. Some would say that this would only likely occur if the technology concerned & activation/deactivation were insurer claim refusal factors.

Anyway...Mindful that, (whilst still on topic), we, ( I ), have maybe digressed somewhat.
 
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Bobby Dazzler

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If the change is performed by the manufacturer prior to delivery then I can’t see it being an issue with insurers.

If the change is performed later by the manufacturer as part of a recall for safety or legal reasons then I can’t see it being an issue with insurers.

Either way, the owner/driver has no choice but to comply.
 

whitenemesis

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Reinstating a function disabled because it doesn't comply with (international?) regulations would surely render the vehicle illegal for road use and therefore insurance invalidated?
 

Freak

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It’s simply cars registered from April onwards that have to have these systems turned off

the new wheel is touch sensitive, see below:

So mine was registered in March 2021 and I don't have these features enabled....

Going into my local MB dealer on Thursday for them to investigate....
 

JBD

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So mine was registered in March 2021 and I don't have these features enabled....

Going into my local MB dealer on Thursday for them to investigate....
Sorry, I’ll clarify. From April 1st any car with these features has to have them turned off before registration can happen.

Mercedes removed these features from a lot of cars from production towards the end of last year. As an example, any A Class built from around October doesn’t have park assist etc.

The issue is that some cars built before then remain in stock, so do still have those features, which have to be turned off as of April 1st.

MB have been aware of this for months and made the necessary changes in production last year. The issue now is just with cars built earlier on.

There’s nothing your local dealer can do to activate them because your car is clearly a new model year car, so was built without them.
 

Inkytog

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That’s interesting- my sales / build on the VIN decoder too is showing
Production Date2021-03-26

So this would explain why it’s on but de activated after.

Slightly more concerning is still how my dealer has absolutely no knowledge of the reason it’s not there - and he’s told me its still a product they are selling.
 

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