Park Assists Disabled on all new Mercedes help!

[markjay]

Well if they don't respond soon it will be going to Trading Standards and the Motor Trade Ombudsman as I think its incredibly misleading and as the dealer spent three days trying to fix it and got a Master Technician in to look at it, they are not informing the dealerships either.

These are my thoughts....:

a. That's an interesting legal issue.

I think your case will be stronger if the Active Park Assist option was specifically listed in your sales order / contract.

Otherwise, I suspect that MB will point in the direction of the disclaimer (which I am sure they have) on their website and brochures that says that the specification may change without notice (or words to that effect).

b. I suspect that this feature can be activated by STAR, though it's not clear where this will leave you in terms of roadworthiness under UK laws, manufacturer's warranty, and insurance cover.

c. Another potential legal issue, is that while the courts do not enforce a contract that violates UK laws (if someone tried to force MB to activate the feature based on the sales contract), I have found before that there may be gaps in MB's interpretation of UK legislation - abd in this case, MB's claim that activating this feature contradicts EU (and at current also UK) laws can potentially be challenged. For example, the real issue might turn-out to be manufacturer's liability in case of injury, rather than a specific ban in law on this feature.

Under such circumstances, it may be possible for the court to impose on MB the activation of this feature, i.e. because MB's financial and criminal liabilities should not be made the customer's concern. Activation, or an offer of full or partial refund etc.

d. As for Brexit... I don't think it will have much effect. The majority of EU internal regulations are apolitical anyway, and I suspect that we will follow suit on the majority of these rather than pointlessly reinventing our own regulations for everything under the sun. This is essentially what happened when the majority of British Standards (BS) were merged over the years with those of the International Standards Organisation (ISO). So I don't really think that post-Brexit the UK's car industry regulations will be materially different to those of the EU.

 

[glojo]

Did the feature work previously on the OPs car and now no longer works?

Or did it never work?

I can’t see how it can be disabled other than by a software update - if you have it, it will still work unless and until you let MB update the software...

I am NOT convinced your argument holds any type of water. It is standard practice for the main dealer to carry out updates when our vehicle goes in for a service. Your remarks suggest that folks with this feature will have it switched off when their vehicle is serviced.

Just imagine the complaints we would be reading if your allegation was happening? I have no idea what has happened to the car owned by the OP but it definitely has my interest?

 

[markjay]

Am I missing something? The UK isn't in the EU and in four weeks time we leave the transitional arrangements. Surely if MB can disable these safety devices because the EU don't approve of them, they can enable them for non EU regions?

As said, everything will be transferable until reviewed, and somehow I don't think that this particular area of regulation will be a priority on 2nd January... so I wouldn't rely on Brexit for a quick resolution of this issue.

 

[GP801]

MB have a history of not telling dealers when features are deleted. Back in 2005 our SLK was ordered with electric memory seats but the easy entry function that moves the drivers seat backwards did not work. Technicians spent ages trying to work out what was wrong even to the extent of "rebooting" various ECU bits. Turns out MB had disabled it without telling anyone. Allegedly they were getting damage claims because the seat ran back into the bulkhead. Could they not have just reprogrammed the movement?
Our daughter has just taken delivery of her new Volvo. The park assist function is definitely working on that one.Seems that MB may be jumping the gun on this one.

 

[st13phil]

I can’t see how it can be disabled other than by a software update - if you have it, it will still work unless and until you let MB update the software...

Current-gen cars (with MBUX) have OTA software feature provisioning, meaning that features can be enabled or disabled remotely at the whim of MB. The OP's situation is a salutary lesson for us all regarding that.

 

[markjay]

Well said and is legislation transferable or does it ALL have to be reviewed? I am asking out of a vested interest as I am importing a car from the EU and it clearly states it has this option, plus I have been told it still performs the function it is designed to do. Only time will tell to show if Belgium salespeople are as economical with the truth as their UK counter-parts

My experience is that there's a difference between buying an EU-spec car in Europe and then importing it to the UK, and ordering a new car in Europe specifically for export to the UK.

In the latter case, the car will be built to UK spec and supplied to you in Europe.

(But in your case it's academic because MB's ban on Active Park Assist is apparently EU-wide?)

 

[glojo]

These are my thoughts....:

a. That's an interesting legal issue.

I think your case will be stronger if the Active Park Assist option was specifically listed in your sales order / contract.

Otherwise, I suspect that MB will point in the direction of the disclaimer (which I am sure they have) on their website and brochures that says that the specification may change without notice (or words to that effect).

b. I suspect that this feature can be activated by STAR, though it's not clear where this will leave you in terms of roadworthiness under UK laws, manufacturer's warranty, and insurance cover.

c. Another potential legal issue, is that while the courts do not enforce a contract that violates UK laws (if someone tried to force MB to activate the feature based on the sales contract), I have found before that there may be gaps in MB's interpretation of UK legislation - abd in this case, MB's claim that activating this feature contradicts EU (and at current also UK) laws can potentially be challenged. For example, the real issue might turn-out to be manufacturer's liability in case of injury, rather than a specific ban in law on this feature.

Under such circumstances, it may be possible for the court to impose on MB the activation of this feature, i.e. because MB's financial and criminal liabilities should not be made the customer's concern. Activation, or an offer of full or partial refund etc.

d. As for Brexit... I don't think it will have much effect. The majority of EU internal regulations are apolitical anyway, and I suspect that we will follow suit on the majority of these rather than pointlessly reinventing our own regulations for everything under the sun. This is essentially what happened when the majority of British Standards (BS) were merged over the years with those of the International Standards Organisation (ISO). So I don't really think that post-Brexit the UK's car industry regulations will be materially different to those of the EU.

I always read with great interest your very wise words but this is a 'print screen' I have just grabbed from the UK WEB-SITE



To my simple mind.... If a company advertises goods that are for sale and when a customer buys those goods, are they supposed to perform as designed?

I am still not 100% convinced about what is going on as it makes no sense

 

[markjay]

...Our daughter has just taken delivery of her new Volvo. The park assist function is definitely working on that one.Seems that MB may be jumping the gun on this one.

The same applies to MB's interpretation of the requirement to display the speed also in Kmh on UK cars - MB will tell you that it needs to be displayed 'at all times', which isn't true - what the legislation actually says is that the car only needs to be able to display the speed in Kmh.

(There's another reason why MB did that, and it's not a legal reason, but that's a different story).

Additionally, as I pointed-out earlier, the 'legal' issue fior MB might actually be one of manufacturer's liability, rather than a specific ban in law on Active Park Assist - but I don't know that for fact.

 

[Deleted member 149005]

I am NOT convinced your argument holds any type of water. It is standard practice for the main dealer to carry out updates when our vehicle goes in for a service. Your remarks suggest that folks with this feature will have it switched off when their vehicle is serviced.

Just imagine the complaints we would be reading if your allegation was happening? I have no idea what has happened to the car owned by the OP but it definitely has my interest?

see the threads on MBs "mandatory" update of emissions software....

 

[markjay]

I always read with great interest your very wise words but this is a 'print screen' I have just grabbed from the UK WEB-SITE

View attachment 105547

To my simple mind.... If a company advertises goods that are for sale and when a customer buys those goods, are they supposed to perform as designed?

I am still not 100% convinced about what is going on as it makes no sense

Thank you for your kind words

I didn't say thar MB actually had a case... I was merely suggesting what they might use as defence.

The potential issue for MB will be UK consumer protection laws. It's OK to stick to the letter of a document in B2B situations, but when it comes to consumer protection it is often the case that the ruling is in favour of the consumer regardless of what the manufacturer said or wrote.

 

[glojo]

Thank you for your kind words

I didn't say thar MB actually had a case... I was merely suggesting what they might use as defence.

The potential issue for MB will be UK consumer protection laws. It's OK to stick to the letter of a document in B2B situations, but when it comes to consumer protection it is often the case that the ruling is in favour of the consumer regardless of what the manufacturer said or wrote.

As a layperson, I would like to think that Mercedes would be up the creek without a steering wheel. As a layperson when ordering that feature, I am doing so not just from the literature, but also from the lips of that very honest salesperson As a layperson I would like to think when I buy a duck, the blooming thing walks like a duck and quacks like a duck

 

[NJSS]

frostjr100​

If you bought the car recently you could talk to the dealer principal about the potential of rejecting the car.

He might be able to reassure you that the disabling will be definately reversed by a particular date, maybe 2nd January 2021? Failing which you could at least expect to be refunded the cost of the features which have been disabled.

NJSS

 

[markjay]

I think the OP should ask himself what is he practically looking to achieve.

He is unlikely to be successful in forcing MB to activate this feature (without a lengthy and potentially-expensive legal process).

So he could choose to just wait and see what happens next.

Or he could probe to see if MB are open to a settlement agreement based on an offer of some form of compensation - a partial refund, or a free Service Care Plan, or another year of warranty, etc.

Or he could try rejecting the vehicle on the premise that it does not meet his requirements - e.g., if the OP has a narrow garage and wouldn't have bought such a wide car without the Active Park Assist, or that the availability of this feature was otherwise a significant consideration when choosing this model.

Or he could try legal action or arbitration, perhaps through Trading Standards or the Ombudsman etc.

But in any event, it would be good to understand what the 'legal' issue is exactly - i.e. are car manufacturers simply not allowed to activate this feature under EU regulations, or is it the case that MB chose not to activate it because of either liability concerns or possible future regulation changes etc. If MB are simply not able to activate it due to a specific current legal prohibition or ban, then the only way forward is some form of financial compensation. If, however, MB chose not to activate this feature only because of related legal concerns that they may have, then, well, that's where things can get really interesting from the legal perspective (though in reality it is unlikely to ever get that far).

 

[glojo]

What about we ask the very simple question:

Has anyone who owns a vehicle with 'Park Assist' had that option switched off when the vehicle was last serviced?

So far we have the OP quite rightly complaining this option has been disabled but does that mean ALL UK vehicles have this feature switched off?

Markjay correctly states
(But in your case it's academic because MB's ban on Active Park Assist is apparently EU-wide?)

Are we suggesting this is correct without any proof?

The dealer in Belgium states our car will have this option and yes, it will work. Now far be it for me to gossip but Belgium is in the EU, they display this feature as being available and surely when demonstrating the car, they would make a point of showing off this feature?

For those accepting it has been switched off, you are filling me with doubt regarding our vehicle. Do we have, or has anyone seen any literature stating it has indeed been switched off?

 

[markjay]

One possible explanation is that this is how MB UK interpreted EU regulations.... but other MB HQs in other European countries may have a different interpretation?

That, or perhaps whoever wrote the response to the OP were just making it up as they go.... in the hope that the OP will simply go away and let them finish in peace that cup of tea that was getting cold on their desk?

 

[glojo]

One possible explanation is that this is how MB UK interpreted EU regulations.... but other MB HQs in other European countries may have a different interpretation?

That, or perhaps whoever wrote the response to the OP were just making it up as they go.... in the hope that the OP will simply go away and let them finish in peace that cup of tea that was getting cold on their desk?

I confess I fear the latter is probably the more likely as surely we would be inundated with complaints. There MUST be at least one forum member with this feature and have had their car serviced by a main dealer?

I remember recently reading a post of a member whose park assist did not work but in the end it was down to the system needing the indicator to be active**.

**Since when has it been a requirement to use an indicator if there are no other road users in sight? But hey ho

 

[wongl]

In the latter case, the car will be built to UK spec and supplied to you in Europe.

Not in my experience!

I factory ordered an MB car via a Denmark dealership specifying RHD, UK options, and English manuals, etc. When the car was delivered it was built to Danish standards with all the UK options I specified - the differences were in small details, for example, the VIN number under the windscreen was blanked off (even though there was a clear window to display the VIN number). The paperwork was provided both in Danish and English versions despite specifying the English/UK versions. Also, I did not have to perform the dreaded 'UK Delete' since the outside temp display was fully selectable.

But I am interested in glojo's import from Belgium. If the import to the UK takes place after the 31 Dec without a free-trade deal, would there be an import duty applied before the dreaded VAT?

 

[markjay]

Not in my experience!

I factory ordered an MB car via a Denmark dealership specifying RHD, UK options, and English manuals, etc. When the car was delivered it was built to Danish standards with all the UK options I specified - the differences were in small details, for example, the VIN number under the windscreen was blanked off (even though there was a clear window to display the VIN number). The paperwork was provided both in Danish and English versions despite specifying the English/UK versions. Also, I did not have to perform the dreaded 'UK Delete' since the outside temp display was fully selectable.

Fair enough - my experience was based on events back in the nineties... things have clearly changed since.

 

[flowrider]

I confess I fear the latter is probably the more likely as surely we would be inundated with complaints. There MUST be at least one forum member with this feature and have had their car serviced by a main dealer?

I remember recently reading a post of a member whose park assist did not work but in the end it was down to the system needing the indicator to be active**.

**Since when has it been a requirement to use an indicator if there are no other road users in sight? But hey ho

It makes sense that you should be indicating to tell the car your intentions otherwise how does the car know you want to park.

 

[frostjr100]

Did the feature work previously on the OPs car and now no longer works?

Or did it never work?

I can’t see how it can be disabled other than by a software update - if you have it, it will still work unless and until you let MB update the software...

It never worked from picking the car up.