Parking charge notice

[Wolfie1]

Hmmmmmm......the joys of soliciting advice on the internet.

The OP has given relatively little information about the PCN - but the two significant parts about this are that the PCN was incurred in Scotland and the OP appears to live in England.

The situation in Scotland is evolving. The law in Scotland has been changed so that in *principle* the registered keeper can be pursued for PCNs issued by private companies - but there appears to be a hiatus because the actual process of doing it has not been properly established. So currently the likely advice if the OP was based in Scotland would be to ignore.

However - what is worth checking - is that the OP is based in England and whether a private company would have any means to try and pursue there. I would assume that it is unlikely that they can - but better to solicit an opinion in a forum with a bit more experience / understanding.

So best advice IMO is as @st13phil suggests - go to pepipoo and ask there.

I like in scotland too

 

[whitenemesis]

How much is the fine?

It's not a fine, it's a charge.

Only police and councils can fine you.

OK then, how much is the charge?

 

[Jibbajabba]

I've heard from several people now that PCNs are taken to court and I know of two guys where the court agreed with the parking company. So any 'ignore it because it worked for me' advice should be taken with a pinch of salt. It's like the same people saying 'I never paid car tax and never got caught'.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I've heard from several people now that PCNs are taken to court and I know of two guys where the court agreed with the parking company. So any 'ignore it because it worked for me' advice should be taken with a pinch of salt. It's like the same people saying 'I never paid car tax and never got caught'.

I’ll be honest, based upon what has been shared so far - and in the same circumstances - I would probably just pay the charge especially if it’s discounted initially, as unfortunately failed appeals often result in the discount being removed.

Since the traditional “ignore it and it will go away” approach has been upturned in England, and the reducing likelihood of there actually being insufficient signage, then the risk of wnding up with a CCJ without realising isn’t worth taking a risk.

It’s more likely than not that there would be adequate signage, and if I chose to park there but not use the services of the pub or pay to park. then I might feel hard done by or gutted that I didn’t think to check for signs, but I would reluctantly pay.

In the past there have been shady practices but if a business like a pub has engaged a parking operator to manage their car park then I would say that it’s very likely to be because they likely believe that there is an issue with people misusing their car park.

Today I saw a great big electronic sign above a bus lane with text which started with “Bus Lane…” and commented to my passenger that the car whizzing up the inside of us in the bus lane will be in for a shock as there are bus lane cameras.

I assumed that the sign was a warning, because every other time I have ever seen a great big electronic sign over a bus lane it has been a warning. On this occasion it said it was open for all traffic. I jumped to the wrong conclusion.

I would similarly jump to the wrong conclusion on a pub car park like the OP, and I definitely jumped to the wrong conclusion on a Euro Garages Starbucks car park as I received PCN. It’s not common, so easy to make the wrong assumption.

I spent £100 in that Starbucks that day and had coincidentally gone over the time limit by a few minutes - even though I had no idea there even was a limit. When I checked there were plenty of signs inside and out, I just didn’t expect them.

 

[Skd884]

I’ll be honest, based upon what has been shared so far - and in the same circumstances - I would probably just pay the charge especially if it’s discounted initially, as unfortunately failed appeals often result in the discount being removed.

Since the traditional “ignore it and it will go away” approach has been upturned in England, and the reducing likelihood of there actually being insufficient signage, then the risk of wnding up with a CCJ without realising isn’t worth taking a risk.

It’s more likely than not that there would be adequate signage, and if I chose to park there but not use the services of the pub or pay to park. then I might feel hard done by or gutted that I didn’t think to check for signs, but I would reluctantly pay.

In the past there have been shady practices but if a business like a pub has engaged a parking operator to manage their car park then I would say that it’s very likely to be because they likely believe that there is an issue with people misusing their car park.

Today I saw a great big electronic sign above a bus lane with text which started with “Bus Lane…” and commented to my passenger that the car whizzing up the inside of us in the bus lane will be in for a shock as there are bus lane cameras.

I assumed that the sign was a warning, because every other time I have ever seen a great big electronic sign over a bus lane it has been a warning. On this occasion it said it was open for all traffic. I jumped to the wrong conclusion.

I would similarly jump to the wrong conclusion on a pub car park like the OP, and I definitely jumped to the wrong conclusion on a Euro Garages Starbucks car park as I received PCN. It’s not common, so easy to make the wrong assumption.

I spent £100 in that Starbucks that day and had coincidentally gone over the time limit by a few minutes - even though I had no idea there even was a limit. When I checked there were plenty of signs inside and out, I just didn’t expect them.

£100 in starbucks!

Had a blood test lately?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

£100 in starbucks!

Had a blood test lately?

It’s very easy to spend £100 in Starbucks! Lunch and two drinks for eight people can do that easily!

 

[A.J.]

I've heard from several people now that PCNs are taken to court and I know of two guys where the court agreed with the parking company. So any 'ignore it because it worked for me' advice should be taken with a pinch of salt. It's like the same people saying 'I never paid car tax and never got caught'.

That is what I thought, I think I would still try the mitigating circumstances though. It will probably not yield any fruit but you won't know unless you try.

 

[Wagon]

Have you tried phoning the pub? Pretty sure they could get it waived

 

[Wolfie1]

Have you tried phoning the pub? Pretty sure they could get it waived

I did, says there is nothing they can do as i didnt buy anything but dont believe them, did confirm there was lots of police in that day, said they were in eating


Fine is £100 with a £40 discount if payed before 14 days, 1 thing is for sure i will never ever ever spend a single penny in that place there my life even though its in a very convenient place to stop off when traveling, will just use the mcdonalds or kfc along the road from it instead.
Thing that annoys me the most, we have been there before and never had a pcn before and i have never put my reg into a machine before.

Place is called dunnichan stone mill pub in forfar

 

[whitenemesis]

TBH I'd just pay the discounted amount and move on...

 

[Cmonyoureds]

I got one in a private car park in Fife about 2 months ago. My understanding is that at the moment these parking charges are not enforceable in Scotland.

 

[MrGreedy]

The 'easy' way to get these waived is to get the pub (in this case) to enter your reg No or provide it to the PCN company for the day in question. Then the system all works and the parking enforcement Co. will drop it.

Fighting it (assuming you are successful) will take a lot of effort, and the parking companies know this. Often they don't show up to court themselves.

Going down the parking company internal dispute route is a waste of time. They always find in their favour.

Paying the charge is a legitimate option.

I was faced with this choice a couple of years ago, and didn't see the signs nor the reg entry machine in the restaurant. Nor was it mentioned by the staff.

The reason I fought it is because I don't want to be on some sort of 'mugs' list, whereby paying the charge highlights me as an easy target, and even worse, my details are shared around parking companies knowing I might be an easy target. Possibly a bit conspiracy theorist.


However, one thing's for certain. I will never visit any business operating out of Pride Park in Derby again, because it's collectively surveilled by ParkingEye.

 

[del320]

I did, says there is nothing they can do as i didnt buy anything but dont believe them, did confirm there was lots of police in that day, said they were in eating


Fine is £100 with a £40 discount if payed before 14 days, 1 thing is for sure i will never ever ever spend a single penny in that place there my life even though its in a very convenient place to stop off when traveling, will just use the mcdonalds or kfc along the road from it instead.
Thing that annoys me the most, we have been there before and never had a pcn before and i have never put my reg into a machine before.

Place is called dunnichan stone mill pub in forfar

Looks like you're not alone.

Anyways, Tripadvisor's reviews are pretty crap, so I wouldn't be going there either!

 

[Jibbajabba]

I am confused. So you parked at a private car park of a pub, didn't pay for parking nor used the facilities and now complain about the ticket. Now you say you won't go back - it seems like they are the ones that didn't lose out on anything really.

 

[Dryce]

Fighting it (assuming you are successful) will take a lot of effort, and the parking companies know this. Often they don't show up to court themselves.

This is in Scotland.

So 'fighting it' as the keeper isn't the obvious option within this jurisdiction - rather 'ignoring it' has tended to be the optimal route until the law and procedures in Scotland harmonise and the companies are better empowered to enforce against the keeper.

 

[Dryce]

I am confused. So you parked at a private car park of a pub, didn't pay for parking nor used the facilities and now complain about the ticket. Now you say you won't go back - it seems like they are the ones that didn't lose out on anything really.

Well the issue is that the OP appears to have intended to use the facilities - but due to some unusual circumstances didn't - and got caught out not realising there was a liability being incurred by entering the carpark and taking some time to assess those unusual circumstances.

If you want to criticise then really it should come down to either the OP ignoring any valid signage regarding parking - or possibly the signage being inadequate and the OP wasn't reasonably aware of the carpark operation.

 

[flying haggis]

Any pub that charged for parking via a machine and a seperate company wouldnt get my custom thats for sure

 

[m80]

Any pub that charged for parking via a machine and a seperate company wouldnt get my custom thats for sure

I think the usual is that a customer enters their reg and that cancels any charge raised by the APNR.
But tbh I haven't encountered that method personally.

 

[m80]

But a pub has a large car park.
It is close to MCD's and other similar outlets.
I can see some would buy at those outlets and park to enjoy their lunch on the pub car park.
I can see a camper may well pull up, have a cuppa, and carry on their journey. Although i'm sure that's not the case here.

So the pub maintains the car park, clears up discarded rubbish, and all so those that see no harm using the car park can enjoy at some one else's disadvantage.

To me it's just another example of too many people competing for too little space.

The unscrupulous operation of the gangster type parking companies is another matter though.
To my mind just cos a sign says we will screw you for a hundred quids doesn't make it reasonable.

 

[A.J.]

I think the usual is that a customer enters their reg and that cancels any charge raised by the APNR.
But tbh I haven't encountered that method personally.

You could well be right, one or two places around here operate that system. You probably wouldn’t know until you got inside the building unless you spotted the signage outside which sometimes isn’t that obvious