Parking fine advice

[tombo5609]

Hi you legal eagles.
I am mad with rage. Two days ago in torrential rain I parked in a space between two vehicles not noticing that the van to my left had gone over his dedicated space so forcing each each car including myself to do the same.
When I returned an hour later all the other cars had gone leaving my car parked outside the White lines and I had been given a ticket for illegal parking.
I searched the car park looking for an attendant but of course could not find one but what I did notice is that all over the park there were similar parking offences. It is obvious that if for some reason a vehicle parks outside the lines it then forces every other car to do the same, this looks like a nice little earner for someone.
I am now either in the position that I either have to pay a £50 fine or contest it. Has any other member experienced this and what are my chances of getting away with a objection.

 

[whitenemesis]

Pay it and move on. Life's too short....

 

[Giantvanman]

What you don't know is if the other vehicles had tickets because they left before you. On the one hand, you would hope common sense would prevail but on the other, it is an absolute offence; you were either parked in the box/within the lines or not and they would argue that no-one made you park there, I suspect. It is a bitter pill to swallow but life's lessons never seem to come without a cost of some description.

 

[neilrr]

FightBack Forums

 

[markjay]

I think that unfortunately the fine is legit, but at the same time there is no harm in appealing against it - I had fines dropped on occasion even when I did not have a clear case etc.

My advice would be to give the appeal a go, you never know who might be reading it, and the same time prepare for both eventualities.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

If it's a council run car park then you can try contesting the fine. Just write to the council and explain what happened. believe it or not, they're mostly human and understanding. If they continue to insist on you paying the fine then it's best to just pay up.

If it's a privately run car park (eg NCP) they can't fine you. All they can do is issue a Parking Contravention Charge Notice (PCCN) and expect you to pay whatever charge they deem fit. You have a choice of two courses of action: a) begrudgingly pay up; or b) ignore it - and the various threatening letters that will inevitably follow. If you paid to park there in the first place I would think it's not unreasonable to take the second option. There are thousands of cases of people taking this option and the company gives up trying - I'm one of them. But whatever you do, if you go for this option DON'T contact the company in any way whatsoever. Ignore all communications including threats of court action from debt collectors. The adrenaline rush with ignoring each letter is fun!

 

[flango]

You may want to be aware the law on the above has now changed so do not ignore communications. The parking companies have now started enforcing fines in court and via debt collection agencies now they are legally allowed to do so

Two bits of advice from me and my legal beagles

Don't ignore communications related to parking offences

Don't take advice from Pepipoo

I can't tell you the number of times SWMBO has had to bail people out on advice they have taken from that forum

If you want good legal advice pay for it don't take forum advice

Alternatively you could marry a lawyer ;-)

 

[Deleted member 65149]

You may want to be aware the law on the above has now changed so do not ignore communications. The parking companies have now started enforcing fines in court and via debt collection agencies now they are legally allowed to do so

I wasn't aware that companies have ever NOT been legally allowed to enforce CHARGES in court. Anyone can go to court to try to enforce charges they chose to apply, but whether or not companies will chose to go to the not inconsiderable expense of actually doing so has been generally unlikely. To my mind, ignoring PCCNs is a bit like driving at over the speed limit in favourable conditions - you'll usually get away with it but may get caught and have to pay up.

Please can your legal beagles clear up the difference between FINES and CHARGES. I had always been under the impression that only the authorities (police, councils, government, etc) can issue fines.

 

[flango]

I wasn't aware that companies have ever NOT been legally allowed to enforce CHARGES in court. Anyone can go to court to try to enforce charges they chose to apply, but whether or not companies will chose to go to the not inconsiderable expense of actually doing so has been generally unlikely. To my mind, ignoring PCCNs is a bit like driving at over the speed limit in favourable conditions - you'll usually get away with it but may get caught and have to pay up. Please can your legal beagles clear up the difference between FINES and CHARGES. I had always been under the impression that only the authorities (police, councils, government, etc) can issue fines.

There's another thread on here from someone who ignored the communications from the parking company they handed it over to a debt collection company who after several unsuccessful attempts to get the money took it to county court, the other party never responded and the court appointed Bailiffs to recover the money and costs incurred and got a CCJ registered against him

This is getting more and more common just have a look at the case list of your local county court you will now see plenty of these

As for fines and charges I could make an educated guess but won't I'll get the proper legal opinion when she is home and post back.

 

[KennyN]

The van that caused the "domino" effect by being initially over the white line was probably parked there by the "wardens" company and once people had started parking over the lines the van drove off to another carpark to start the same procedure.

Kenny

 

[tombo5609]

Thank you for all the advice. I am just going to pay up with gritted teeth.
Just a comment. About 3 months ago whilst in Turkey I parked exactly between the White lines. I Wa the only one to do so and as I got of the car the traffic warden told me to move my car further over and closer to the car next to me. This would mean parking across the lines and I argued that I was between the lines and he should have made the other car move. This nearly caused an international incident. It would appear that in Turkey, the lines, like the traffic lights are not really there for any other purpose than to inconvenience law abiding motorists.

 

[flango]

Thank you for all the advice. I am just going to pay up with gritted teeth. Just a comment. About 3 months ago whilst in Turkey I parked exactly between the White lines. I Wa the only one to do so and as I got of the car the traffic warden told me to move my car further over and closer to the car next to me. This would mean parking across the lines and I argued that I was between the lines and he should have made the other car move. This nearly caused an international incident. It would appear that in Turkey, the lines, like the traffic lights are not really there for any other purpose than to inconvenience law abiding motorists.

Yep traffic lights change colour for no apparent reason in Turkey as no one takes a blind bit of notice of them.

 

[neilrr]

I've been given first rate help & advice on pepipoo, with the site helping me to have 3 councils fold their parking ticket cases upon receipt of my pepipoo inspired / guided letter.

Like any forum, it helps if you can spot the wannabe experts, W. Mitty types & gasbags .

 

[markjay]

A friend owns a small private car part in central London.

There is a ticket machine onsite, and Pay-by-Phone location number.

The car park is unattended, and parking is enforced only by CCTV.

The parking management company installed the ticket machine and CCTV free of charge to the owner.

They do not charge any ongoing running costs either.

The parking fees are paid go to the owner in full. The parking management company keeps any 'fines' they collect.

Their income (and the cost of installing and maintaining the system) comes solely from 'Parking Charges' for those who do not comply with the rules - which are neatly laid-out in a prominent location.

However... they told the owner that they do take legal action against non-payers, because it is not worth their while to do so. All they do is send-out threatening solicitor letters, and most people do pay up. Those who don't, simply get away with it.

(This is not to say that all parking management companies do this - I do not know - just that this the policy of this particular company)

What I found baffling is not that people do pay up when served a payment demand - many people do not need the aggravation of being harassed - it is the fact that the parking management company can actually return the investment and turn a profit from parking 'offenders' alone.

There are massive signs stating clearly the cost of parking and the 'penalty' charge, why would people park up and not pay? And then pay the Parking Charge once demanded.... you would have thought that this type of car park will generate very little income in 'fines'.

My friend asked the same question and was told that there is ample income from people who flout the rules, in spite of the very clear signage, and the cost of the 'fine' (£100)... go figure.

 

[S205-FTW]

What was the name of the company which issued the invoice?

If they're not an Approved Operator then they cannot obtain details of the Registered Keeper from the DVLA. The chance of hearing from them again is then very low as they don't have your name and address to send any correspondence to. Unless you give them your details via letter or via their 'helpline'. Many of these cowboy companies will mention on their invoices that you must contend on writing only (thereby giving them your address)

List of Approved Operators:
http://www.britishparking.co.uk/approved-operators

If I was in your position and the operator is not on the above list, I would just ignore the invoice. It will no doubt have a chequered border, be called something *similar* to a Penalty Charge Notice and include threatening language.

 

[Piff]

I think at £50, I would pay it after trying an appeal.
If it ends up in court it will cost you more in lost time even if you win

 

[meeeb]

There's another thread on here from someone who ignored the communications from the parking company they handed it over to a debt collection company who after several unsuccessful attempts to get the money took it to county court, the other party never responded and the court appointed Bailiffs to recover the money and costs incurred and got a CCJ registered against him

Presumably there is also the danger of this type of action putting a black mark on your credit rating, thus preventing, or complicating, an application for a financial product - credit card, personal loan etc., - at some point in the future? Could stuff your plans for a new car some time.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Presumably there is also the danger of this type of action putting a black mark on your credit rating, thus preventing, or complicating, an application for a financial product - credit card, personal loan etc., - at some point in the future? Could stuff your plans for a new car some time.

Absolutely.

Don't forget potential for a mortgage refusal too. All for a small fine and misguided pride.

 

[Meldrew2]

I'll ignore everything up to the Court papers, but if Court action starts it will be defended vigorously.

Then again, in my experience (admittedly small) the parking fine companies huff and puff a lot, but that's all I've seen them do.

This is just my view though, and I know that others on this forum know far more than I.

 

[Maurauth]

Bit of an old topic but incase you've still not responded to the company or if anyone finds this in the search box, here's my experience.

I parked over the line in a car park (Castle Way, Southampton for any of you Hampshirians) as there is a small walkway up some steps that is walled off and the space next to it is quite a distance away, so seeing that space was free I decided why not reverse in right up against the wall so I've got a good 3 feet between my car and anyone next to me!

Came back and saw the ticket, the "enforcement officer" was still in the car park and I asked him why he gave me the ticket, by parking with my wheels slightly out of the bay meant that I protected my car and the car next to me from being accidentally damaged and didn't obstruct any pathways, other spaces or driving areas.

He just said he didn't care it was over the line, end of! Unfortunately for him that's not what the council thought when I appealed in writing, seems like someone there has some common sense and decided to throw it out, no charge to me other than a first class recorded letter!

I would definitely advise anyone to, and would myself, appeal in writing including as many photos as possible of your parked position with the ticket stuck to the window and a timestamp. You might not get the same common-sense response as I did but it's worth a go!