Parking ticket for 'parked beyond the bay markings'

[BTB 500]

Mother-in-law got a PCN in Windsor today from a CEO: code 86, "parked beyond the bay markings".

She was parked in an arch beneath a railway bridge, which had two spaces marked out side-by-side. Due to the length and width of the car (it's a LHD LWB R Class) she had the wheels on the white line between the bays. Partly because of the awkward access to the space (not a straight approach), and partly because of the narrow width of the bay. Mrs BTB parked in the next arch where only one bay was free, and was only able to squeeze out of her Audi A4 with the door opened against the side of the other car (very carefully, she said!).

So ... is there a basis for challenging this, or should she just pay up?

("Calling Robert Saunders ... " )

 

[Spinal]

If you can prove the bay was too small for its intended purpose, I'd say you have grounds for an appeal...

If not, then I doubt that your appeal will get very far...

Proving it may be as easy as "the car's width is 220cm, the bay was 180cm wide" or much harder (the car is smaller than the bay, but the access to the bay was restricted)

M.

 

[AbbieCadabra]

hubby had exactly the same a while ago - an awkward space, a LWB van & trying not to block anyone else in!

our protest fell on deaf ears but it could be worth a go in your area. good luck

 

[219]

I think , but am not sure , that there is a 'standard' size for a parking bay .

If the bay is smaller than these dimensions , because of walls , kerbs or other obstructions , you may very well have a good case .

 

[robert.saunders]

Depends on the policy of the issuing authority; in Peterborough it's worth a challenge as the PCN will be written off under a 1st occasion basis. Can you give the issuing authority a call to ask? May well give peace of mind, and then you can submit your challenge knowing the outcome will be favourable.

As it's an off-street location the bays don't have to follow statutory guidance for sizing.

If it was an on-street PCN* they must follow this guidance, unless the authority has permission to have different measurements from the DfT.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113bm.gif

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113bn.gif

* based on an on-street PCN, if a challenge was not successful and you are faced with a formal representation or submission to appeal at Tribunal, you may find that if the bays are not correctly sized you can ‘win’ on a technicality. Depends how much fuss you want to make! But this only applies to an on-street PCN, and not applicable in this instance

 

[x332race]

Were the wheels just "on" the white line or did the extend "over" the white line......I am not an expert but would you not need to have your wheels extending over the white line in order to be "beyond the bay markings", not just touching them??

 

[Rory]

Having "they" been reducing the size of bays in smale areas to encourage people to use smaller cars? I Think if the car doesn't fit in the bay then you aren't supposed to use it.

Where is the car registered? If it's abroad then what happens if you just don't pay?

 

[Meldrew2]

I think , but am not sure , that there is a 'standard' size for a parking bay .

If the bay is smaller than these dimensions , because of walls , kerbs or other obstructions , you may very well have a good case .

Where bays are set in a parallel line, they should be 2.4m wide, 4.8m long, and 6.0m unobstructed space to manouevre into the bay.

Source - the leaflet that came with my line marking paint applicator.

 

[robert.saunders]

Where bays are set in a parallel line, they should be 2.4m wide, 4.8m long, and 6.0m unobstructed space to manouevre into the bay.

Source - the leaflet that came with my line marking paint applicator.

You need to read post #5

 

[BTB 500]

Were the wheels just "on" the white line or did the extend "over" the white line......

Don't know for sure ... I wasn't there.

I was told 'on the line'.

 

[BTB 500]

Having "they" been reducing the size of bays in smale areas to encourage people to use smaller cars? I Think if the car doesn't fit in the bay then you aren't supposed to use it.

Where is the car registered? If it's abroad then what happens if you just don't pay?

These are arches under a railway bridge ... there's a white line in the middle of each arch to give 2 bays. So they are the size they are.

You could be right about the car not fitting, I think the problem was that there was nowhere else to park.

The car is German registered. I suspect within the EU they would follow it up. M-I-L is over quite often so doesn't want to go on the ANPR database or anything like that!!

 

[Meldrew2]

You need to read post #5

I've read post 5. Sorry, but I do not see the relevance.

It gives dimensions for ON STREET parking, parallel to the kerb or at variable angles to the kerb.

It does not give dimensions for parking in parallel rows, or off street parking.

 

[robert.saunders]

Maybe I wasn't very clear...

This contravention in the OP is off-street and therefore bay markings of a certain size do not apply in law (as I already stated). I posted information about bay markings being a certain size (for on-street) for information purposes only as clearly folk on here will think that bays no matter where they are, have to be a certain size. They do not. Therefore, I was aiming for clarity.

The on-street echelon parking to which is referred in the statutory guidance can be 90degrees to the kerb, located in a street/road as the highway authority sees fit within available road space; the widths and lengths are still stipulated in the guidance and the markings cannot deviate - so for the purposes of clarity there is relevance.

For further clarity, read from page 118 (article 20.17 refers):

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/trafficsignsmanualchapter5.pdf

 

[rag1873]

If the car doesnt fit properly in the bay she shouldnt be parked in it, bet she wouldnt have parked it there if her wheels just touched a double yellow line or a white zig-zag line.

 

[Mark300SL]

Silly question - is it a "proper" PCN - or a PPC attempting to look like a legitimate PCN

Pepipoo forum is great for these, and its amazing how far PPCs will go to make their "tickets" look legal

 

[BTB 500]

It's a proper PCN ... payment to Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead.

 

[Rory]

It's a proper PCN ... payment to Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead.

I was wondering that too. As it's a proper one, then get a copy of their rules, which of course everyone entering the borough should familiarise themselves with - they will no doubt say something like "you must park wholly wothin the parking bay boundary".

Perhaps MIL could make a challange based on a breach of her human rights as, being foreign, she couldn't reasonably be expected to know such things.

 

[LTD]

I've chatted to a few of the Parking Nazis locally about my car.

I have an S500 LWB and it is slightly longer than the majority of the bays here.

They have suggested to me that if my car was neatly parked and had a valid ticket on it then they wouldn't worry about it as it wasn't my fault that the bay was shorter than the car.

However, if it was badly parked and therefore took up two bays then they wouldn't be too chuffed.

 

[bones2008]

The trouble is, usually it depends on the mood of the parking attendent. Some days they may ignore tyres on the white lines but on another day they may ticket you. It's the lack of consistency thats a problem!

 

[Smiley]

they put a ticket on a German registered car....and you think they are smart enough to follow up on it.
I would suggest that you ignore it.