PayPal Question

[Adam230K]

I've received payment for an item that i've sold outside ebay grounds. But as i understand it, even upon the receipt of my itetm the buyer may choose to chargeback what he's paid and i could be left with nothing.

Any experienced Ebayers out there that can share some knowledge with me about how to avoid a mishap like this?

Thanks in advance!

 

[verytalldave]

If you check your bank balance, you will see when the paypal amount has cleared into your account. Paypal payments are sometimes seen as the banks as direct debit payments for some unexplained reason. Paypal payments can take over 5 working days to PROPERLY clear and for the funds to become available to you to draw on. Ask your bank specifically on this point.
You should not release goods to the buyer until this has happened as the buyer CAN claw back the payment from paypal. You have to make this clear at the outset to the buyer that there will be this delay as payment is cleared. Obviously this becomes more important the higher the value of the transaction.

 

[SilverSaloon]

yes if they put in a claim then they can take the money from you. even if you withdraw it into your bank from paypal and you wait and it clears in your bank they can still put in a claim and paypal can refund them meaning you will be in negative balance. this automatically restricts your paypal account and you will be unable to use the account or make new ones until you make good the account. basically your in paypal's hands.

dont get me started on paypal or ebay

i've also noticed on some ebay transactions of mine, as soon as a buyer puts in a dispute, paypal put the money on "hold" and take the money and take the money from you and hold it themselves so neither the buyer has it or yourself. they then need a valid tracking number that complies with their policies or the buyer to end the dispute for the money to return to you.

basically, beware. i'm sure it will be fine though. i sell a lot via ebay and hardly ever get trouble.

if you send it via a service with a tracking number you should be ok. add the tracking number to the paypal transaction as soon as you post it aswell as this makes it better and less likely for a buyer to submit a claim as they understand and can check its status

 

[verytalldave]

yes if they put in a claim then they can take the money from you. even if you withdraw it into your bank from paypal and you wait and it clears in your bank they can still put in a claim and paypal can refund them meaning you will be in negative balance. this automatically restricts your paypal account and you will be unable to use the account or make new ones until you make good the account. basically your in paypal's hands.

dont get me started on paypal or ebay

I didnt know that. I had always assumed that once the paypal payment had cleared into your bank account and was availble to draw on, then that was the end of it and the buyer couldnt claw back the payment from paypal. What you are saying is that they can - even after the payment has cleared into your bank.
So how long does this situation last? How long has the buyer got before paypal will refuse to pay back the payment to him//her?

 

[Smiley]

I guess the best advice is to keep the paypal balance zero or close to; at least that way the worst they can do is show a negative balance.

 

[SilverSaloon]

I guess the best advice is to keep the paypal balance zero or close to; at least that way the worst they can do is show a negative balance.

this is dodgy though as if you go into neg balance you need to fax proof of address etc etc to paypal to get it re-instated to recieve and send payments again.... a lot of hassle and can take a few weeks to get sorted. if you use it regually then it can really ruin your ebay business.

i keep my balance around £50. this covers me but at the same time keeps the money out of paypal's hands. My brother had over 1k in his paypal account and they froze the account because of more than 3 claims at once or something..... took about a month to get sorted and be able to withdraw his money.

i have no idea if paypal will pursure negative balance accounts - i doubt it unless its a lot of money. probably just bonbard you with demand emails.

 

[SilverSaloon]

So how long does this situation last? How long has the buyer got before paypal will refuse to pay back the payment to him//her?

30 days i think to put in a buyer dispute and then a further amount of time to "upgrade" it to a claim.

basically when a dispute is put in, paypal put the cash on hold and then give 30 days for the buyer to upgrade it or end it. if they dont, then it will expire and you will get your money back. if they upgrade it to a claim then you HAVE to show a valid tracking number or paypal automatically refunds the buyer whether they continue to communicate or not. they give you a set amount of time to respond etc. once you give them the tracking number then paypal "decides" if the refund is valid. if it is then they will then ask the buyer to return the item for a refund via tracking. they then need to show a valid tracking number to get the refund.

an ongoing example i currently have is that i sold some books (very heavy parcel). i sent them off as normal.... i actually just sent them standard parcel (no tracking) as i find i hardly get any issues but it is a risk... but anyway; the buyer waits a few days (ok i didnt post as quickly as i'd hoped) but they had just gone when they put in a paypal dispute. paypal has taken the whole £30 which was the item and the postage and put it on "hold". this was a couple of weeks ago and buyer hasnt updated the dispute which means i will get my money back in a few weeks time.... BUT i am still out of pocket for the full amount even though it cost me £7 to post. even if i did have a tracking number it wouldnt help as i'd have to upgrade it to a claim myself and submit the tracking number and then hope that paypal sees sense and refunds it (sometimes they dont) and would still take a good while - probably longer than it takes for the dispute to expire.

so basically i am out of pocket for a whole month just because the buyer thinks. "huh, its arrived" and doesnt update the paypal dispute. i cant even leave them negative either (doubt i would anyway in this case though)

ebay and paypal suck serious rotton eggs!

 

[JumboBeef]

I hate PayPal.

I once sold an item (for about £20) through eBay, all correct and in line with their rules. It was posted and the buyer left positive feedback.

About two months later, they claimed they had never received the item. PayPal believed them, despite the feedback, and took the £20 from me and gave it to them.

Never sell anything with PayPal that you wouldn't be upset over losing ~ PayPal make it so easy for the buyer to get their money back.

OP, how much is the cost of whatever it is you have sold?

 

[Adam230K]

Its not much money, i'm just a bit suspicious that this guy wants it today and has already sent out a courier to come collect the item from me. I'm thinking i'll just take down the name of the driver, company and a tracking number, and i should be covered.

 

[SilverSaloon]

I hate PayPal.

I once sold an item (for about £20) through eBay, all correct and in line with their rules. It was posted and the buyer left positive feedback.

About two months later, they claimed they had never received the item. PayPal believed them, despite the feedback, and took the £20 from me and gave it to them.

Never sell anything with PayPal that you wouldn't be upset over losing ~ PayPal make it so easy for the buyer to get their money back.

OP, how much is the cost of whatever it is you have sold?

i tend to agree. unfortunatly, ebay has made paypal too easy for buyers to use. i used to recieve most of my payments for ebay in cheque form. no fees and no risks of chargeback.

always keep your tracking numbers for aslong as the claim is possible.

there are many times i have paid for something via paypal and in theory could have got my money back and a free item. i paid for an expensive item via paypal and collected it in person so the seller didnt have a tracking number..... i could have got home and put in a paypal claim, kept the item and kept my money - i didnt though by the way!!! but i bet a lot of ebay buyers would!!!! and after all that, you couldnt even leave them negative feedback!!

 

[SilverSaloon]

Its not much money, i'm just a bit suspicious that this guy wants it today and has already sent out a courier to come collect the item from me. I'm thinking i'll just take down the name of the driver, company and a tracking number, and i should be covered.

you should be if its a proper courier company that paypal can speak to. i doubt you will get any hassle. paypal payments are instant so to the buyer you have had the payment so there is no reason not to send the item. which is true as even though its not in your bank account, you could go and buy an ebay item for yourself via paypal with their money......

i am sure it will be fine; especially if they have a good feedback rating. they cannot get negatives anymore but a bad buyer wont have many positives to his name either. 0 rated buyers are 50/50 chance now i'm afraid!! keep all the details and tracking for about 60 days to be sure!

 

[SilverSaloon]

some info on their seller policies here:

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_spp-outside

Payments received in your PayPal account may be reversed at a later time (in some instances up to 180 Days following the time of receiving the payment) if such a payment is subject to a Chargeback, Reversal, Claim or otherwise invalidated. This means that for some of our sellers, payments received into their Account may be returned to the sender or otherwise removed from their Account after they have been paid and/or delivered any goods sold.

err, yeah thanks paypal



almost forgot, the courior needs to have an online tracking number to be a valid paypal one - they dont bother ringing up, just check the websites etc;

also its PROOF OF DELIVERY you need, not POSTAGE!

Online documentation from a postal company that includes all of the following:

A status of “delivered” (or equivalent) and the date of delivery.
The recipient’s address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent).

 

[SilverSaloon]

dont get me started on paypal or ebay

whoops, looks like i did get started. i'll stop now!!

 

[Mudster]

If the buyer chooses to process a chargeback via their card issuer rather than a Paypal you will lose the cash. Paypal will not defend provider chargebacks no matter what proof of postage or deliver or no matter to what n'th degree you comply with their terms.

This is actually details in their terms and conditions that you agree to be bound by whatever Paypals decision is no matter how right or wrong.

Therefore I never leave any bank account or card details registered with Paypal....every time they screw me over, I knock them for the money and open another account. They cannot pursue you for the funds.

 

[SilverSaloon]

Therefore I never leave any bank account or card details registered with Paypal....every time they screw me over, I knock them for the money and open another account. They cannot pursue you for the funds.

dont they link the accounts by your address etc etc?

 

[Mudster]

dont they link the accounts by your address etc etc?

Yes but they have no legal means of recovery, they instruct a debt collection company called NCO Europe, these guys are debt collectors only, not bailiffs and they have no legal grounds under which to recalim the money - they generally bully people into paying with false threats.

Paypal are not in a position to apply for court judgment as no court int heir right mind finds in their favour so they don't bother. It also creates complications that they chose to register their business in Liechtenstein or wherever to avoid tax and enable money laundering.

I had NCO onto me a couple of times but I quoted Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 detailing protection of harassment. Along with Breach of the Wireless and Telegraphy act (for the phone calls) plus reporting them to the FSA for misrepresentation....this usually nips anything int he bud and the debt is immediately written off and you account closed.

Then open another.

Just never leave any live bank details or cards registered on it.

 

[SilverSaloon]

Yes but they have no legal means of recovery, they instruct a debt collection company called NCO Europe, these guys are debt collectors only, not bailiffs and they have no legal grounds under which to recalim the money - they generally bully people into paying with false threats.

Paypal are not in a position to apply for court judgment as no court int heir right mind finds in their favour so they don't bother. It also creates complications that they chose to register their business in Liechtenstein or wherever to avoid tax and enable money laundering.

I had NCO onto me a couple of times but I quoted Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 detailing protection of harassment. Along with Breach of the Wireless and Telegraphy act (for the phone calls) plus reporting them to the FSA for misrepresentation....this usually nips anything int he bud and the debt is immediately written off and you account closed.

Then open another.

Just never leave any live bank details or cards registered on it.

i guess the same applies to ebay itself aswell....? i have a couple of suspended accounts (suspected because of their stupid-ness not mine) that could be linked to my live account, but for some reason has gone unnoticed so far.....

ebay and paypal for me are a necessary evil unfortunatly. however all the changes they have done recently has really ruined it for me. i used to be making around £150 a day on ebay. now about £100 a week! admitadly because of this i dont tend to bother asmuch now

 

[Mudster]

The fees are now starting to become prohibitive on eBay.

It's become a victim of it's own success.

 

[lynall]

Agree with the fees! and i hate the new page format, as do a few blokes at work who use e bay.



Lynall

 

[butty871]

be careful i sent a car dvd player 2 a guy and paypal said payment pending until delivery so i posted it then the guy said he never recived it and got his money bk. i got no help from paypal even tho i had the tracking number and i had filed 4 cases against him but stil lost now im 100 down and no dvd