PCN - is there a time limit?

Discussion in 'Driving/Incidents/Roadrage' started by Marque, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. Marque

    Marque Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I received a PCN from Harrow Council today, 21 days after the alleged offence. It was for PERFORMING A PROHIBITED TURN - NO RIGHT TURN at 10.59 AM on 28 July 2010.

    There is a photo of my car supplied, although it doesn't show the street, the turn or the sign. They claim to have CCTV evidence (which is likely). The problem is that I honestly cannot remember the incident at all, or even being in Harrow on that day. My diary says that I was waiting at home for a delivery from B&Q.

    I am usually pretty good at obeying road signs, but my observation skills have deteriorated with age (along with my memory) so if this is correct then I will just pay the £60. I guess I should ask for further proof, which may then jog my memory.

    Isn't there some time period within which they must issue a PCN? Three weeks is time enough for me to forget important details, for road signs to be repaired or replaced, etc.
     
  2. crockers

    crockers MB Club Veteran

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    Does this help..



    The General Regulations:
    Penalty charge notices — service by post
    10. — (1) An enforcement authority may serve a penalty charge notice by post where—
    (a)
    on the basis of a record produced by an approved device, the authority has reason to believe that a penalty charge is payable with respect to a vehicle which is stationary in a civil enforcement area;
    (b)
    a civil enforcement officer attempted to serve a penalty charge notice in accordance with regulation 9 but was prevented from doing so by some person; or
    ©
    a civil enforcement officer had begun to prepare a penalty charge notice for service in accordance with regulation 9, but the vehicle concerned was driven away from the place in which it was stationary before the civil enforcement officer had finished preparing the penalty charge notice or had served it in accordance with regulation 9,
    and references in these Regulations to a “regulation 10 penalty charge notice” are to a penalty charge notice served by virtue of this paragraph.
    (2) For the purposes of paragraph (1)©, a civil enforcement officer who observes conduct which appears to constitute a parking contravention shall not thereby be taken to have begun to prepare a penalty charge notice.
    (3) A regulation 10 penalty charge notice shall be served on the person appearing to the enforcement authority to be the owner of the vehicle involved in the contravention in consequence of which the penalty charge is payable.
    (4) Subject to paragraph (6), a regulation 10 penalty charge notice may not be served later than the expiration of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which, according to a record produced by an approved device, or information given by a civil enforcement officer, the contravention to which the penalty charge notice relates occurred (in these Regulations called “the 28-day period”).
    (5) Paragraph (6) applies where—
    (a)
    within 14 days of the appropriate date the enforcement authority has requested the Secretary of State to supply the relevant particulars in respect of the vehicle involved in the contravention and those particulars have not been supplied before the expiration of the 28-day period;
    (b)
    an earlier regulation 10 penalty charge notice relating to the same contravention has been cancelled under regulation 23(5)©; or
    ©
    an earlier regulation 10 penalty charge notice relating to the same contravention has been cancelled under regulation 5 of the Representations and Appeals Regulations.
    (6) Where this paragraph applies, notwithstanding the expiration of the 28-day period, an enforcement authority shall continue to be entitled to serve a regulation 10 penalty charge notice—
    (a)
    in a case falling within paragraph (5)(a), for a period of six months beginning with the appropriate date; or
    (b)
    in a case falling within paragraph (5)(b) or ©, for a period of 4 weeks beginning with the appropriate date.



    Where is Robert Saunders when you need him :)
     
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  3. OP
    OP
    Marque

    Marque Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    So, it's 28 days (normally).

    I suppose I should be grateful it was a PCN and not an NIP. :rolleyes:
     
  4. Stratman

    Stratman Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Why is a local council issuing a PCN for a Road Traffic Act offence?
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Marque

    Marque Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Because the time limit for issuing an NIP had expired??
     
  6. jasonyw

    jasonyw Banned

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    It could be a clone, there are thousands out there. If you feel it not your car look at the photo again to make sure it not your car like stickers or marks.:thumb:
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Marque

    Marque Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Thanks, but I'm pretty sure it's my car: the rear tyre tread pattern matches! (Also, my car was recently de-badged plus it has an obvious and memorable registration, which I imagine most cloners would avoid.) :D
     
  8. renault12ts

    renault12ts MB Club Veteran

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    What, you can see the tyre pattern? Post the photo up so we can all see it.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Marque

    Marque Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    ^^^ Not really! (The picture was taken from the CCTV footage, so it's not that clear.) It only shows the rear of my car with the registration.

    I will find out if they will release the video. I believe some local autrhorities send a link that can be accessed on-line.
     
  10. neilrr

    neilrr MB Club Veteran

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  11. Noodle-Pulp

    Noodle-Pulp Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Really? :eek:
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Marque

    Marque Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Strangely, the PCN doesn't require me to state who the driver was, if it wasn't me. I guess it's like a parking ticket: they just want the money.
     
  13. markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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    They do... wife got one for taking a turn where the sign says no turn, caught on CCTV.
     
  14. markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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    There is no personal liability with PCN - i.e. it carries no criminal record, points on your license etc - so you can have as many as you can afford to pay... and still not a blemish on your character.
     
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  15. robpow

    robpow Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Yup, got a nice video of my car crossing a few metres into a bus lane when turning left in Camden the other month...
     
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  16. OP
    OP
    Marque

    Marque Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I contacted Harrow Council's Parking Enforcement Department. If I want to see the video, I have to go there in person. However, they did send me three images by e-mail, the first of which shows the alleged contravention:

    [​IMG]

    The second image shows my car driving away five seconds later. The third is from another camera that clearly shows my car's registration, timed nine seconds after the first image.

    I think I will just pay the £60 and get on with my life.
     
  17. Pontoneer

    Pontoneer MB Club Veteran

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    Do just check that the 'no right turn' is properly signposted .

    If signs are missing , you would have no way of knowing about the prohibition and a legitimate defence - otherwise pay up .
     
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  18. flango

    flango MB Club Veteran

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    Just been talking to SWMBO on this one, If used in evidence in court there has to be a wide angle shot of the surrounding area along with the close up registration identifier shot, this is to ensure traffic signs are clearly visible. Secondly if ordinary CCTV is used for traffic violations there has to be signs posted saying cameras are used for that (This is certainly the case in Camden and I think most other London Boroughs) but a lot of councils miss this important part and the case gets thrown straight out.

    Not saying you want to take this on If you are guilty then it's easier to pay up but if they don't comply to the rules then challenge it.

    This might help CCTV Code of Practice
     
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  19. neilrr

    neilrr MB Club Veteran

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    before you give up post the circumstances of your ticket on Pepipoo & it's almost certain someone will know a way to get it dismissed by letter.

    It's a great site.
     
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  20. OP
    OP
    Marque

    Marque Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    My memory has been jogged sufficiently that I do now recall turning right at the junction identified on the PCN. The road layout has changed since the previous time I was there (it used to be a mini-roundabout) and a friend says that it's definitely signed no right turn now.

    I would normally have turned left, but there were some major roadworks at the next junction, which were causing very long delays. I was in no hurry - I just didn't want to cause additional congestion unnecessarily. The side roads were all one-way, so the only 'alternative route' was to turn right down Wealdstone High Street.

    Of course, the correct manoeuvrer would have been to turn left and then immediately execute a U-turn. It would be nonsensical to do this, obviously, but then the law is an ass and common sense doesn't apply. Taxis on Oxford Street in London do this all the time, but then they do have a tight turning circle!

    Perhaps I could have got off on a technicality or by pleading reasonable justification, but my limited experience is that local authorities make it as hard as possible to overturn a PCN - otherwise everyone would do it! So, I decided to pay up and move on. I might have thought differently if it was an NIP.
     
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