pending fuel protest?

[andy_k]

From the Annie's internal news network.....................

Friday 22 April 2005 12:01pm

Fuel protesters in poll threat


Fuel tax protesters have threatened to disrupt the General Election with direct action including refinery blockades and go-slows on major routes.

Farmer and haulier Andrew Spence, a spokesman for the Fuel Lobby, said their campaign was set to begin on May 3, two days before polling day, if the Government did not bring down tax on fuel.

The lobby said it was prepared to recreate the week-long protests of September 2000 which caused shortages and buying panic at the pumps.

Mr Spence, from Consett, County Durham, said: "Don't rule anything out.

"The election would be stopped if we had our way. Tony Blair will not be able have enough fuel in his car to get to the polling station."

He said a large meeting of hauliers will be held in Stirling, Scotland.

"Those boys up there want to do something now," Mr Spence said. "The hardest part will be stopping them from protesting until May 3."

The Road Haulage Association has also warned members could be stirred into "legal" action.

It claimed anger was mounting around the country about "the increasing cost of fuel".

RHA chief executive Roger King said meetings had been held in Scotland and North Wales and attitudes among those present were "increasingly militant".

 

[Thmsshaun]

In the past month the average fuel bill for one of my hauliers has gon up by £350 per week

The problem with many hauliers is they have made a rod for there own back by undercutting and stabbing each other in the back. Fuel blockades are not whats needed.

What the haulage industry in particular needs to do is get behind each other and park up for a few days. No one can be forced to work!! You are not comitting an illegal act. The country would be ground to a holt within a couple of days and the government would have to act.

 

[grasmere]

I, for one, am absolutely sick to death of these fuel price rises.

It cost me £53 the other day to fill up at 91p a litre - that is simply unbelievable

Protest? Count me in - big style . . .

 

[del boy]

wat needs to be done is simple, adjust our (the hauliers) outgoing costs to same as the rest of the worlds so we can compete on an equal scale. park up for a few days? 100,000 grands worth of motor? fink not ay

 

[SimonsMerc]

I, for one, am absolutely sick to death of these fuel price rises.

It cost me £53 the other day to fill up at 91p a litre - that is simply unbelievable

Protest? Count me in - big style . . .

The problem is that these hauliers are not trying to get the price of diesel reduced for all of us. If that was the case I would support them 100% - 90+p per litre is ridiculous! But what they are campaigning for is rebates for commercal haulage. This does not benefit the ordinary motorist in any way - it helps them and their business, no-one else.

Of course there's the counter argument that without lorries no-one would have anything in shops etc etc. Personally I don't buy this. When a field becomes more competitive, some businesses will fail and people will lose their liveleyhoods, others will step in and fill the gap (and make money on it). There will always be a requirement to have food (and everything else) lorried around the country. If there is no-one who can do it for cheaper (because fuel is too expensive) then stores etc will pay more expensive prices for it - because it is a fundamental requirement of their business to be able to provide merchandise in their shops to sell. A the moment the hauliers are all undercutting each other to get business - their complaint is that soon they will not be able to do that. Well damn.

I say folk should protest in general to get diesel prices down. Just helping one industry segment doesn't work, and if the government capitulate then it opens the floodgates. Just imagine, next the taxi drivers will be campaigning for a rebate, then builders and other tradesmen, then....well you get the picture. These greedy so-and-so's only care about themselves and their own businesses, and I for one will not support them.

-simon

 

[Benzowner]

What no one on here seems to realise is that hauliers claim back the VAT on fuel, so the 90p/litre actually costs the haulier about 76.5p/litre, and the fuel increase is due to the cost of crude increasing not additional tax. It was interesting to see theat both BP and Shell made huge profits, the price goes up so do their profits and we suffer. The normal tax add on for fuel was not imposed this time. Oh and by the way, the annual tax increase on fuel was introduced by the last Tory government I beleive, so to was the increase in VAT from 15 to 17.5%, once introduced it very rarely if ever gets recinded

 

[GRAV888]

Yes, we can claim the VAT back on the diesel, but even then, we are still paying way over the top for it.
When I go to France, it is only .59ppl INC TAX

 

[fwb44]

The problem is that these hauliers are not trying to get the price of diesel reduced for all of us. If that was the case I would support them 100% - 90+p per litre is ridiculous! But what they are campaigning for is rebates for commercal haulage. This does not benefit the ordinary motorist in any way - it helps them and their business, no-one else.

Of course there's the counter argument that without lorries no-one would have anything in shops etc etc. Personally I don't buy this. When a field becomes more competitive, some businesses will fail and people will lose their liveleyhoods, others will step in and fill the gap (and make money on it). There will always be a requirement to have food (and everything else) lorried around the country. If there is no-one who can do it for cheaper (because fuel is too expensive) then stores etc will pay more expensive prices for it - because it is a fundamental requirement of their business to be able to provide merchandise in their shops to sell. A the moment the hauliers are all undercutting each other to get business - their complaint is that soon they will not be able to do that. Well damn.

I say folk should protest in general to get diesel prices down. Just helping one industry segment doesn't work, and if the government capitulate then it opens the floodgates. Just imagine, next the taxi drivers will be campaigning for a rebate, then builders and other tradesmen, then....well you get the picture. These greedy so-and-so's only care about themselves and their own businesses, and I for one will not support them.

-simon

Well, speaking as a greedy so-and-so taxi driver, I can tell you that putting £55 worth of diesel in every other day in an attempt to continue to deliver a service of some quality doesn't exactly make my heart sing either. But if I didn't care about my own business, sure as ph**k no-one else would, and I can only increase my fares once a year. Ever tried being self-employed in the real world SimonsMerc?

When I go to Spain I pay 58p/litre equivalent for diesel. If I could pack up & go to live there tomorrow I would - diesel prices are only one relatively insignificant indication of how values in a material and general sense are better prioritized there.

 

[ckember]

Everything is generally cheaper on the continent. In spain the cost of living is cheaper than the UK so fuel is cheaper.



I have a better solution for everyone. Apart from the general UK population moving to Spain.

Get the trucks to use the Rail network during peak time,(7-9am and 4-7pm) its the trucks overtaking on hill,s at 55.5mph that cause most of the congestion on UK motorways. The reduction in traffic would reduce the fuel bills of everyone stuck in the jams and also reduce the C02 emmissions on UK roads. Also I believe that tyhe accident rate on motroways would fall and we would not need the Speed cameras, another cost to the motorist removed.

This in turn would then negate most of the problem of the hauliers having to price bid on each other as the rail costs would be constant. Also if they used the Rail Network, the system would have more money to its improve services. Public transport gets better and Ken Livingstone and the current government would stop coming down on us the poor motorist

I believe in Holland that they restict the motorway usage in this manner and it works.

Lets see if any MP's are reading this and take up on the idea

 

[fwb44]

Everything is generally cheaper on the continent. In spain the cost of living is cheaper than the UK so fuel is cheaper.



I have a better solution for everyone. Apart from the general UK population moving to Spain.

Get the trucks to use the Rail network during peak time,(7-9am and 4-7pm) its the trucks overtaking on hill,s at 55.5mph that cause most of the congestion on UK motorways. The reduction in traffic would reduce the fuel bills of everyone stuck in the jams and also reduce the C02 emmissions on UK roads. Also I believe that tyhe accident rate on motroways would fall and we would not need the Speed cameras, another cost to the motorist removed.

This in turn would then negate most of the problem of the hauliers having to price bid on each other as the rail costs would be constant. Also if they used the Rail Network, the system would have more money to its improve services. Public transport gets better and Ken Livingstone and the current government would stop coming down on us the poor motorist

I believe in Holland that they restict the motorway usage in this manner and it works.

Lets see if any MP's are reading this and take up on the idea

What absolute bollocks. Can you imagine the logistics involved in getting stuff from point A to point B by rail, but having first of all to get it to point A by road and then again from point B to its final destination by road again? And the extra costs this nonsense would add to the inflated prices we already pay for goods?

In Spain there is an excellent rail network - for people. Goods go by road where there is also an excellent motorway and trunk road system connecting the whole country seamlessly. Trucks there are not restricted to 56 m.p.h. but frequently travel at speeds up to 125 k.p.h. I don't know the speed restrictions for trucks but the Spanish traffic cops aren't bothered.

One thing I do know - the 'general UK population' (whatever that means) won't be moving to Spain, they'll go on being stuck here, whinging on forums like this one. The lucky few can cut loose and go somewhere where there are better things to do with their time and energy.

 

[BenzComander]

The UK is "Treasure Island"!! Manufacturers can charge what they like and we will pay it. No choice really unless we want to get on a ferry!! Why else do all of our major retailers make so much money (Shell, BP, Tesco, BT to name but a few)

Just got back from the USA Four bedroom, three bathroom, double garage with pool on a golf resort $250,000, about £130,000. Dont start me on the price of fuel and new cars

At the next election we all get our chance to have our say. If we dont like what the current government is doing there is only one solution, vote them out and see what the other parties can do.

HTH :bannana:

 

[jimti]

Fuel prices shouldn't bother Hauliers, they "should" be able to pass the costs onto their customers, but the way Haulage works, this never seems to happen, A truck costing above £80,000 averaging around 10 mpg works for the same sort of rate as a London cab, eg, £1.50 per mile, this is a fact of life in Haulage, it shouldn't be, but it is.. Oh, they also have to compete with companies (own government subsidised) from Eastern Europe who move over to the UK with their trucks full (up to 1500 ltrs) of cheep Diesel, paying poverty wages (legally) for a few weeks at a time.

I am glad I don't own a truck but just drive one for someone else.

Rail is not a viable answer, rail can't cope with commuters, never mind freight as well, and if you ask anyone involved in rail network maintenance they will tell you that it is freight trains that cause all the damage to the railway lines causing disruption to the already bad service.

 

[Aswall]

Just being devil's advocate, but has fuel really gone up that much? I mean compared to increases in salaries, RPI etc. Just curious as I remember petrol going over £1 a gallon in the late 70s when we lived in Scotland and it's still not gone over £4. I'm going to do some research and find out

 

[ckember]

If in spain the trucks can go at 125 kph they are going faster than in the UK, so the Spanish have a better way of dealing with Haulage, and moving people around a much bigger country in large numbers, that is the point that the UK has a crap transport system that is not being improved properly for the majority of people that use it on a daily basis.

Take the M1 it will soon be widened to four lanes from J6 to J10 great, but then during peak times one lane will become a car pool lane. so where's the improvement. And how will this be paid for, higher taxation on the car driver and incidentily the haulage firms.

The number of people that know each other and are going to the same place at the same time is probably very small but they will benefit. OK if we all want to fly from Luton.


My argument is valid when looking at the Holland approach. It also works in other countries in Europe. Restricting heavy haulage on the motorways does work to reduce congestion asnd accidents

 

[SimonsMerc]

Well, speaking as a greedy so-and-so taxi driver, I can tell you that putting £55 worth of diesel in every other day in an attempt to continue to deliver a service of some quality doesn't exactly make my heart sing either. But if I didn't care about my own business, sure as ph**k no-one else would, and I can only increase my fares once a year. Ever tried being self-employed in the real world SimonsMerc?

When I go to Spain I pay 58p/litre equivalent for diesel. If I could pack up & go to live there tomorrow I would - diesel prices are only one relatively insignificant indication of how values in a material and general sense are better prioritized there.

For reference, my "greedy so-and-so" comment was referring to the fact that what these people are striking for isn't a general reduction in the tax on fuel, which would help everyone (including the taxi drivers), but rather for a rebate of taxes for themselves. That's greedy however you look at it. Don't lecture me about the "real world", we all live in the real world. The point here is that this kind of protest will cause a lot of pain and anguish to people in the real world, but the only thing they are campaigning for is help for themselves.

-simon

 

[BenzComander]

Everything is generally cheaper on the continent. In spain the cost of living is cheaper than the UK so fuel is cheaper.



I have a better solution for everyone. Apart from the general UK population moving to Spain.

Get the trucks to use the Rail network during peak time,(7-9am and 4-7pm) its the trucks overtaking on hill,s at 55.5mph that cause most of the congestion on UK motorways. The reduction in traffic would reduce the fuel bills of everyone stuck in the jams and also reduce the C02 emmissions on UK roads. Also I believe that tyhe accident rate on motroways would fall and we would not need the Speed cameras, another cost to the motorist removed.

This in turn would then negate most of the problem of the hauliers having to price bid on each other as the rail costs would be constant. Also if they used the Rail Network, the system would have more money to its improve services. Public transport gets better and Ken Livingstone and the current government would stop coming down on us the poor motorist

I believe in Holland that they restict the motorway usage in this manner and it works.

Lets see if any MP's are reading this and take up on the idea

In Germany trucks are banned from overtaking on long stretches of Autobahn and are banned from using them from Saturday afternoon until Monday morning. This would be a simple to implement law and have a significant effect on congestion.

 

[PJH]

Just being devil's advocate, but has fuel really gone up that much? I mean compared to increases in salaries, RPI etc. Just curious as I remember petrol going over £1 a gallon in the late 70s when we lived in Scotland and it's still not gone over £4. I'm going to do some research and find out

Over the long term, 30 years, maybe not but over the short term, this year, the cost of fuel has risen a lot.
With higher prices for crude oil the Govt is making far more money from the sales of North Sea oil than it is getting from fuel taxes paid at the pump. The excise tax paid at he pump could easily be reduced to reduce costs and the Govt would still be making more money overall.

 

[scotth_uk]

Gents,

There is some mention of the cost of fuel here, and that is is high here / cheap elsewhere. Has anyone compared the national wages between the two places?

In Australia, unleaded fuel is 45.8p per litre (last week) which seems like a great price, but the national average wage/salary is similarly lower. Also - diesel is not an available alternative for passenger vehicles. It's not readily available at most stations and the market doesn't supply diesel cars as alternatives. Very few manufacturers offer diesel for anything other than trucks.

Surely your references to Spain's fuel prices don't really matter if they are making less money. Plus, who the hell want to live in Spain - you must be kidding?

Also don't forget the the pound is one of the most powerful currencies in the world today, which allows you to holiday for peanuts and have access to all the modern comforts that the first world has on offer at reasonable prices.

As a thankful guest in your country with lifetime residency, I really think it's quite good here. Ever wondered why so many foreigners want to get in? The opportunities in this country along with the power of it's currency allow you to do just about anything, anywhere, any time.

 

[mark.t]

benefit

The only ones to benefit from this are the tanker drivers, days spent in the depot because some mum and her 3 year old in a trolley block the gates and call it a protest .. the government will not reduce the duty on fuel. .it makes reasonably good t.v as well all like a bit of drama ..oh and I get to stay at home. :bannana: .so go on protest I don't think it will go anywhere like the last one because we don't have the b**ls..unlike the French who would block every road burn sheep and pigs for good measure and nobble the ports

 

[mbz 6]

Nice one Scotth uk