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Petrolheads tempted by diesel torque figures?

stats007

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 10, 2003
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5,879
Location
Hampshire
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575M
Don't be.

After hearing about how good modern diesels are with the ability to be chipped and people quoting huge torque figures I've discovered how disappointing they are. I've had a W211 '05 E320 CDI as a courtesy car for the last two weeks and it is horrible - noisy - terrible turbo lag and unpredictable when overtaking. Thanks but no thanks - will stick to V8s!
 
stats007 said:
Don't be.

After hearing about how good modern diesels are with the ability to be chipped and people quoting huge torque figures I've discovered how disappointing they are. I've had a W211 '05 E320 CDI as a courtesy car for the last two weeks and it is horrible - noisy - terrible turbo lag and unpredictable when overtaking. Thanks but no thanks - will stick to V8s!
Hi,
Not fair comparing it to an SL500, is it? Man, any car felt slow after my 500E!
Regards.
 
I think it has more to do with the balance of things...

Big diesels give you good power with great economy. The heaters are always better than the petrol versions. ;)

You can have a cigarette whilst filling up a diesel from a fuel can. Obviously NOT at a filling station and smoking is not good for you. It is good for shocking looks in a service area car park.

More torque is good to minimise the difference in performance between an empty car and a fully laden car.

More torque also helps in snow as your engine is less likely to stall at low revs.

On a certain journey with a certain enthusiastic driving style I get the following consumption figures:

1990 Vauxhall Senator 3.0i (3 speed auto) - 11.69 mpg
2004 Mercedes-Benz SLK 200 Kompressor (5 speed auto) - 17.69 mpg
1999 Porsche Boxter 2.5 (5 speed manual) - 19.19 mpg
1991 Mazda MX3 1.6 (3 speed auto) - 27.28 mpg
2001 Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI (Brabus D6 - 5 speed auto) - 48.96 mpg

If petrol prices here were the same as Dubai then I wouldn't consider a diesel but because they aren't a diesel gives me a good compromise.
 
stats007 said:
Don't be.

After hearing about how good modern diesels are with the ability to be chipped and people quoting huge torque figures I've discovered how disappointing they are. I've had a W211 '05 E320 CDI as a courtesy car for the last two weeks and it is horrible - noisy - terrible turbo lag and unpredictable when overtaking. Thanks but no thanks - will stick to V8s!

Try a E400. It does 250 on the Autobahn and has a lot more room to go.
 
The worm who turned

To be honest, I'm pretty much converted - well I am all the while I have the relative luxury of owning one petrol and one diesel.

The Golf GT TDI I have "only" has 115BHP (120 depending on where you read) but has 210ft/lb torque which is more than my old C230 Kompressor. The torque however hit at about 1900rpm I think.

Around and about town it makes for a swift progress. You have to be seriously cautious in 1st and 2nd gear otherwise the front tyres break traction and between idle and 3000rpm it pulls incredibly strongly. I mean I can drive the S4, jump in the Golf and still chuckle to myslef thinking this thing pulls (as it hits peak torque).

Above the 3000rpm it's a lot flatter, but pulls freely to 4000rpm and would go to 5 I'm sure if I felt the need or reason to do so (can't think of one).

So it's quick and easy around and about town and at 80mph on the motorway in 6th it's doing approx 2300rpm. So plant the throttle and the thing pulls as yet again it's bang in it's prime torque band.

It is a different style of driving. I'm not saying this is a drivers car, and I honestly doubt the practicality of the still front wheel drive 150BHP version - with the VAG 4Motion fitted perhaps. However, as a "petrol head" I can not only tollerate this as a secondary more sensible car, I enjoy driving it which is good as the plan is to use it most of the time. With me driving it like a GTI it still retruns over 50mpg and I imagine the girfriend will manage vastly more.

If I can babble on admitting I can no longer take the michael out of diesels from the ownership of a 1.9 TD, I'm sure the large capactiy engine, rear wheel drive Mercedes and the like are fantastic.

After my dissapointment at how a BMW 330i drove, I think if I had driven the 330D I would have been sold.

I'm may have switched camp, butI have not been brainwashed - they still sound like diesels!!

On an open road, accellerating through the gears I still haven't figured when it's best to change up in the Golf, too late seems to feel a little flat, early gets you with a surge of torque in your back but feels unnatural.

Comparing a Sl500 V8 to an E320CDI is a bit unfair. I have argued before the opposite argument and said you cant comapre cc like for like as if the petrol car also had forced induction it would be better, but I think you have to at least compare ttwo cars with similar engine cc or BHP. If you are comparing on torque figures alone, the petrol car will feel better as it obviously already has high torqure and is also bound to have higher BHP.

I'd say at a guess finger in air, a C270CDI to a C320 or even a C220CDI to a C180 Kompressor and see how they fair back to back for your given use.
 
stats007 said:
Don't be.

After hearing about how good modern diesels are with the ability to be chipped and people quoting huge torque figures I've discovered how disappointing they are. I've had a W211 '05 E320 CDI as a courtesy car for the last two weeks and it is horrible - noisy - terrible turbo lag and unpredictable when overtaking. Thanks but no thanks - will stick to V8s!

I have to agree. With my diesel i find overtaking a problem, you have power when you pull away but then as soon as its out of the power band the power is slow coming back in again. Well thats comparing it to a petrol model though!

I take my diesel for what it is. Its never going to be a v8 beater despite my mods! Its never really designed to be sporty in nature, its menat to be a relaxed cruiser. I use mine as a workhorse so i'm happy with the overall package it provides!
 
Our diesel Voyager way out performs the petrol version by some way - that is comparing like with like. It pulls better, much better economy. Yes you do have to adopt a different driving style knowing where the torque lies etc but once you've sussed that it's a dream to drive.

Having said that - it'll never match my Edna - but I'd never expect it to;)
 
culpano said:
I personally think torque figures are meaningless.

Torque figures are not meaningless at all - they give a very good indication of static acceleration performance - what they don't give you is the full picture of how a car generally drives.

The 320CDi has a peak torque slightly higher than the 500 which is why I was comparing the two - when spooled up the diesel accelerates quite well but it comes in fits and starts with the lag and low rev limit - the cabin noise really put me off though. I imagine Frank Biela thought he was a farmer by the time he finished Le Mans :D .
 
If the trend continues it won't be long before we'll b seeing the kind of power produced by this years Audi diesel Le Mans car in a road car (albeit a high performance one). 811 pounds ft of torque certainly isn't meaningless.

Aren't Merc slightly behind the game compared to Audi et al when it comes to diesel engines.
 
I go along with a number of previous posts. I accept you have an SL500 so that is why you made the comparison, but it should really have been with a SL320

I cannot comment about the new V6 3ltr CDI, but the old in-line 3.2ltr engine had very little turbo lag and should not really have been noticeable. Plus this is not how to really drive a diesel road car! I was a very much dyed in the wool petrol head and hated diesel's with a vengeance. However times change and technology advances a pace.

The diesel should just keep pulling and the auto box deal with the correct gearing. If we drive right up to the car in front, wait for a gap, then change down to overtake, then the diesel will be at a disadvantage. If you plan your driving, look ahead, leave ample room between yourself and the car in front so that you build up speed before the oncoming vehicle passes you then the diesel will give excellent fuel return, plus make extremely fast progress. I am NOT for one minute suggesting that anyone does NOT do this, but a diesel engine might be better driven in a different style.

Does everyone think there 320CDI is noisy at high speeds?

Audi won Le-Man with a diesel and I also believe set a record number of laps for the 24 hour period, so they cannot be that bad (Lucky the gearbox lasted, I wonder if they used a Mercedes box? :) )

John
 
Trouble with my 320Cdi is that it can be a bit too eager to change down when pushed and yes, does get a bit loud at higher revs.

Ideally it should stick in a higher gear and use the Torque properly and that means getting the throttle control right: if you keep flooring it the adaptive transmission just gets more inclined to change down!

So it has a different driving characteristic and that is something you like or do not. The primary design charactertic of the E class (and the bigger diesels in particular) is that of a long distance Autobahn/A road machine in which role they are great.
 
Charley Farley

Turbo lag? Dont' think I've seen it. Choose the right gear - easy with paddles and 7G. Overtaking ridiculously easy.

I'm not expecting to buy a petrol car again and even wonder if they will become difficult to sell.

Well done to the Audi R10TDI by the way.

Can't hear my engine at high speeds 'cos the pods on max volume and I'm singing.
 
Towing, diesels are best

Stats007,
OK I admit I tow a caravan and I will tow with a diesel all the time. That is what torque at low rpm is for. I tow a 1400kg van behind my E300TD estate which pulls like a dream. A petrol engine develops its torque at much higher revs 4000+ the diesel develops its max torque at around 1900 revs hence most caravans are towed with diesels.
 
Noooooo!

The pro diesel argument has just been dashed by the mention of a caravan.

Noooooo!


;)
 
stats007 said:
Don't be.

After hearing about how good modern diesels are with the ability to be chipped and people quoting huge torque figures I've discovered how disappointing they are. I've had a W211 '05 E320 CDI as a courtesy car for the last two weeks and it is horrible - noisy - terrible turbo lag and unpredictable when overtaking. Thanks but no thanks - will stick to V8s!
My E320CDI with tuning box may not quite compare to an E500, but it's pretty damn close, and it certainly beats the pants off the petrol equivalent E320. Take a look at the performance graphs on this thread. I do not have any noticeable turbo lag when driving (I used to have a BMW 530d, and I do know what turbo lag is - the Merc just does not have it).

-simon
 
The day I buy a caravan is the day I consider a diesel ;) . Peak torque for the M113 is from 2500 rpm - 4000rpm which is used in the ML500 and G500 - both towing machines if you can afford the fuel bills of course!

John, the SL320 has considerably less torque than the E320 which is what I was commenting on. peak power to weight is about the same however.
 
stats007 said:
John, the SL320 has considerably less torque than the E320 which is what I was commenting on. peak power to weight is about the same however.

Hi Stats,
Thanks for the quick response, the 320CDI will in normal driving conditions knock spots off the 320 petrol, but would a 320CDI be 'right' in an SL? :eek: :eek:

Can the sound of a big petrol V8 ever be replicated? I wonder what the 400/420CDI sounds like and how would that perform when compareed to your 500?? Now there would be a fair comparison :) (Might be embarrassing)

John
 
The LHD 400CDi V8 is still a bit slower the the SL500 (6.6s to 60 and 16s to 100 IIRC) - though I imagine the fuel bills would make you smile. The V8 in mine is very quiet - too quiet really whereas the diesel is the opposite.
 
I had a 130bhp Golf TDI before I bought the CLK, and I must say that that wasn't a very satisfying car to drive. It was undeniably quick, but as Graham230K points out, performance feels a bit flat.

I do have respect for the economy and raw performance figures of modern diesels (indeed that's part of what tempted me out of my 300E into a then brand new Golf TDI), but I've found I'm still not satisfied with how they drive. I prefer the smoothness and the higher revving nature of petrol engines, not to mention the engine note!

So as a 'sensible' cruiser, a large capacity automatic diesel would be fine. For something I actually want to enjoy driving, it would have to have a petrol driven powerplant.
 

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