Planning/costs of putting in a Dormer window?

[rossyl]

Hi All,

I noticed there's a few people with building knowledge on here, so thought I'd take advantage of that.

I live in the top floor flat of a converted Victorian terrace house in North London, in a conservation area.

The flat is in sort of loft space - at the back of the house the roof has been converted so it is flat. At the front the roof is pitched.

The kitchen is at the front of the house, one of the walls forms part of the roof and it is pitched. This leads to a significant loss of space where I could have more wall units freeing up floor units for a much-needed dishwasher. The room is 10 x 7.2 ft.

My aim is to put in a long dormer window, making as much of that pitched wall straight. Other people have put in dormer windows, although some look terrible, and nearly all are smaller then what i aim to do.


Would the process be:
1.
- Take photos of similar dormer windows
- Sketch what I intend it to look like.
- Have some form of informal chat with council

2.
- Having hopefully received informal council approval, instruct a local architect and engineer. Review local planning applications to find one.
- Obtain drawings + calculations.
- Submit planning application, with plenty of photos.

3.
- Obtain consent (hopefully!)
- Find a builder
- Get building

Costs??
Given it's height from the ground, one issue will potential need for scaffolding, which if required I imagine will add a lot of cost. Other than that, I'm not sure regarding costs.

Thanks,
R

 

[Dai rees]

The first thing to do in my opinion would be to make an appointment with the Planning Officer in your area and ask for an informal chat, discuss with him / her what you would like to do and what would the councils views be on that. Depending on the outcome of that meeting then find an arcitect who has previous experience of the work that you intend carrying out, the council can recommend an arcitect if you ask.

 

[Londonscottish]

The first thing to do in my opinion would be to make an appointment with the Planning Officer in your area and ask for an informal chat, discuss with him / her what you would like to do and what would the councils views be on that. Depending on the outcome of that meeting then find an arcitect who has previous experience of the work that you intend carrying out, the council can recommend an arcitect if you ask.

....or the other way round......in the past I've started with an architect who knows the local planning officers and what they tend to like and dislike.

 

[Londonscottish]

....and go to the planning portal for your local council and see what's recently been approved

 

[npuk]

Do you own the flat?

 

[Mike Walker]

Scaffolding should not be the biggest cost concern but do not forget possible need for a Party Wall surveyor/Party Wall Agreement/fees if the works involve structure and the area on or adjacent to the Party Walls on both sides.

 

[Londonscottish]

From the council's viewpoint the order of events is;

- receive drawings as part of request for planning approval/building guidelines (you need to know which before you submit). Your architect can advise you as such if you use one

- if there is a requirement for structural engineering drawings they need to go in at the same time (this is usually for bigger stuff like full loft conversions which need lots of steels

In the last four planning applications I have always started with the architect and asked him to take the application to a successful conclusion. I have also spoken to that planning office to make sure everything is fine - belt and braces as architects don't always get it right (the planners keep changing the rules and it can be quite subjective.....)

I would suggest at a minimum get an architect to do the drawings. You can find non-fully RIBA accredited ones who work from home and knock up drawings that are good enough for this purpose. You could then baby it through the planning process yourself as this sound relatively simple. But then you need to spend a fair bit of time boning up on the planning process. And don't expect it to take less than six weeks. It never does.

 

[Londonscottish]

Scaffolding should not be the biggest cost concern but do not forget possible need for a Party Wall surveyor/Party Wall Agreement/fees if the works involve structure and the area on or adjacent to the Party Walls on both sides.

Groan - party walls......the last time I did this it was a letter printed off my PC, a bottle of wine and agreement for £0.

This time my pedantic neighbours are taking me the whole way down the formal route. It's going to cost me £1000's.....grrrr. they have a right to do so so be warned.

If you get on well, see if you can go down the informal route - they're still protected - if their palster cracks you still heve to pay to sort it out.

 

[EDZ649]

I make many applications on behalf of our customers and trade in a area where there are lots of conservation areas.

The first thing you need to do is contact the conservation department to see what is and isn't allowed in your area. If there are other dormer windows already built they may have been done prior to the area becoming a conservation area and therefore do not necessarilly set a precedence so you cannot rely on this.

The conservation people will tell you what they 'prefer' and this is the key. Just because they prefer a particular style/design/material it doesn't mean that you have to do what they say. Some conservation officers are over enthusiastic and I have gone over thier heads in the past to make common sense prevail.

Being in a flat means that you do not have any permitted development rights and a planning application is mandatory. There is little point trying to guess the cost of building works until you know what you can and cannot do.

You can do it online on the Portal or do it the old fashioned way. You will need to submit 5 copies of everthing and make sure you keep a copy of everthing as they have a habit of losing documentation.

Cost wise it should be around the £150 mark for the local council fee although some councils will be less and some maybe more. Then you will need to submit a site plan which is downloadable from Ordenance Survey, they cost about £20.

The whole process takes about eight weeks from when they receive your application.

Once planning consent has been obtained you will need the services of an architect to submit a building regs application.

If you need any further help send me a pm.

Leigh.

 

[Ade B]

I'm a London based architect, if you pm me your phone no. I'll give you a buzz and talk you through it.

If you are in Islington they are predisposed to 'resisting' any applications which alter roof lines. Unfortunately existing similar conversions will not be viewed as justification for your proposal if the local plan is against them.

Other boroughs will have local guidlines.

As mentioned, go and see the duty planner for an informal chat with a couple of photos and a fag packet sketch, they will spell out the process. Its free and they are always more helpful when consulted early on.

As mentioned if its a flat you can't undertake works under permitted development rules.

You may not need to submit a full plans application to building control depending on the nature of the works as small domestic works can be carried out under a notice. A call to building control will clarify this - note building control and planning are two different departments within the council and they don't generally talk to each other.

As you've mentioned, you will need a structural engineer at some point after planning and subject to the scope of works a party wall surveyor. Get planning consent first - although its a good idea to get an engineer on board early to make sure that your architect's proposals will actually work.

Professional fees vary enormously and like most things you get what you pay for - push for a fixed fee rather than open hourly rates. If you are happy for your project to get toshed out in an afternoon on the kitchen table then pay less

Build costs also vary enormously - a typical loft conversion costs £40-70k + VAT. We've had recent scaffolding quotes for a 3 storey house at the front only at £600-700 + VAT.

Get personal recommendations for all involved if you can, firms are only as good as their last job, especially in today's market.

Ade

 

[rossyl]

Yes I own the flat. To be honest I need I way to assess the cost, before I dip my hand to deep in my pockets, as I plan on selling in a few years time.

Discussing with the conservation department and meeting the duty planning officer seem like the first things to do. Thanks Leigh and Ade for the detailed advice on each.

I will definitely be calling on further help as this progresses, so thank you all so much for your advice so far.

Ade b - it's haringey council, got any knowledge of that area?

 

[EDZ649]

Yes I own the flat. To be honest I need I way to assess the cost, before I dip my hand to deep in my pockets, as I plan on selling in a few years time.

Discussing with the conservation department and meeting the duty planning officer seem like the first things to do. Thanks Leigh and Ade for the detailed advice on each.

I will definitely be calling on further help as this progresses, so thank you all so much for your advice so far.

Ade b - it's haringey council, got any knowledge of that area?

You will only be able to get a ball park figure. Definative costs can only be worked out once structural calcs and building regs approval has been granted, your appointed builder won't know what spec to price for otherwise.

 

[Ade B]

Ade b - it's haringey council, got any knowledge of that area?

A little, we've got a couple of small things through in the past - from memory they were pretty straight forward (unlike, Islington, Westminster and RBKC)... It was a few years back though.

Tip on costs, with any works to an existing building, keep something back for a contingency - in our experience small projects tend to get little time from consultants (tight fees) so without opening up the existing structure any engineer's input will be speculative and will need to change to adapt to site findings.

Its pretty straight forward, just bear in mind you're not buying a product off shelf and costs are difficult to pin down at the outset. A decent builder will give you estimates to give you a starting budget which can be firmed up as the project develops.

FWIW get a couple of estate agents round for their input, its free - we were surprised to find that obtaining planning consent for extending our 2 bed flat into a 3 bed plus larger living area would not add much real value to the property due to the area we live in and the stamp duty threshold. If you are thinking of moving on in the short term (as we are) it may just not be worth the hassle.


Ade