plodd - some help/advice? anyone?

[SportsCoupeRich]

hi,

on the 10th of this month my mother was over from Spain. I was playing cricket so lent her my car to take to the shops. She got caught on a red light camera

I have to declare who was driving, fine, but she isnt a uk resident? Whats the protocol? If i tell the courts she is now in spain what is the practice for the 'punishing' of non-UK residents in relation to traffic offences.

I assume its 3 points and a £60 fine....

thanks everyone...

 

[peterchurch]

I would think for the hassle involved they would drop the case

 

[Sp!ke]

My experience is that unless the DVLA are told she has a UK license, she wont get the points as the DVLA assume that she holds a Spanish License and just politely ask for the £60 fine.

If she refuses to pay, currently there is no jurestiction to chase her for the money in Spain (although this is in the pipeline).

 

[SportsCoupeRich]

okay, sounds reasonable enough. So if i stump up the £60 fine that should cover it all. Seems fairly easy, but i expect hassle to await

 

[Rory]

What stage are you at with this? You can't simply pay the fine.

Presumeably you've got a NIP asking who was driving? Unless you want the fine (and points) yourself then you have to say your Mum was driving. You would be committing a serious offence to say you were driving.

What happens next varies a lot from place to place (and depends, I supppose, on the person handling it).
Apparently there's a remote possibility that you may get asked to prove that she was in the UK, but you're not obliged to do this. You may get asked to prove that she was insured to drive the car.
If she's kept her UK licence, and she is sent a FPN, then I guess there's no reason why she couldn't comply with it?

 

[SportsCoupeRich]

gathered that. Have the NIP, and am filling that in with her details and sending off. Am i at liberty to say she has a UK license?

So i am not obliged to prove she was in the country. seems a little odd, but no real issue. She is fully comp to drive on other cars so is not on my insurance - i believe that is fine?

Obviuosly she would comply with the FPN but if they give up on it all the better.

 

[Glen]

Just be honest and whoever is guilty should take it on the chin, simple. To run a red light is bad news as either they were driving too fast or weren't paying attention, again simple.

Glen

 

[Rory]

gathered that. Have the NIP, and am filling that in with her details and sending off. Am i at liberty to say she has a UK license?

Just complete the form and leave it at that.

So i am not obliged to prove she was in the country. seems a little odd, but no real issue.

Your obligation is simply to honestly complete the form. If it's suspected that you're lying then you could end up in court and you may then have to prove your defence.

She is fully comp to drive on other cars so is not on my insurance - i believe that is fine?

Where is she fully comp - in Spain? Does that cover her here? (Also, not a legal issue, but when you say 'Fully Comp', she would not be fully comp on your car - driving other vehicles is generally third party only, at least for UK insurers). If she's fully comp in her name in the UK then that should be fine.

Obviuosly she would comply with the FPN but if they give up on it all the better.

Let us know the outcome.

 

[SportsCoupeRich]

i know she wouldnt be fully comp on my car, but then this isnt a question of extent of insurance...just that she had it.

Ran it totally by accident being a 'sheep' - following cars in front thus assuming they had gone green. from what i understand it was a confusing set up.

 

[BearFace]

I recently faced a similar problem, although in my case the "other driver" responsible for the ticket was a UK resident. I simply explained that I couldn't be 100% sure who was driving at the time, but that I was sure it wasn't me. The police subsequently forwarded a photo (it was actually me driving!!!), but due to the lack of clarity in the image, I was able to maintain my stance; namely that I hadn't a clue who was driving at the time. Interestingly, the matter has been taken no further...

All I can say to you is that the administrators are dealing with thousands of tickets each day. If you present them with a feasible justification for not being certain of who the driver was, they will either call your bluff or drop the case. If you state that the person driving was a visitor from outside the UK, they'll either ask for more information or drop the case. Right now there are a few exploitable loopholes, but no real guarantees that they won't pursue matters if the mood takes them...

 

[Bugblatter]

She is fully comp to drive on other cars so is not on my insurance - i believe that is fine?

That's extremely unusual. Driving other cars is normally TP only.

 

[GrahamC230K]

I recently faced a similar problem, although in my case the "other driver" responsible for the ticket was a UK resident. I simply explained that I couldn't be 100% sure who was driving at the time, but that I was sure it wasn't me. The police subsequently forwarded a photo (it was actually me driving!!!), but due to the lack of clarity in the image, I was able to maintain my stance; namely that I hadn't a clue who was driving at the time. Interestingly, the matter has been taken no further...

All I can say to you is that the administrators are dealing with thousands of tickets each day. If you present them with a feasible justification for not being certain of who the driver was, they will either call your bluff or drop the case. If you state that the person driving was a visitor from outside the UK, they'll either ask for more information or drop the case. Right now there are a few exploitable loopholes, but no real guarantees that they won't pursue matters if the mood takes them...

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=17111

Carefull!

 

[BearFace]

"Carefull!"

Interesting article, thanks. Thing is, when I was originally asked who was driving at the time, I genuinely didn't know (I lent the car to several friends and family members during that period). Only on receipt of the incident image was my memory jogged because the driver appeared to be me. More due to the embarrasment than anything, I simply stated that the image wasn't clear enough to identify the driver (which was true) and that was it. If I end up being prosecuted for my "sins" then I'll deserve everything I get, but either way it's clear that the system is fallible.

Cameras are not reducing road deaths, but they are essentially a stealth tax and the motorist is an easy, captive target. If occasionally someone avoids the fine and three very damaging penalty points by exploiting a loophole then I'm not going to condone it. We're not criminals, but we're very close to being treated as such. Just my POV

 

[SportsCoupeRich]

i concur bearface! have a point.

 

[Rory]

I simply explained that I couldn't be 100% sure who was driving at the time, but that I was sure it wasn't me.

You were pretty lucky to get off with this. As mentiontioned earlier, it all depends on the attitude of the department and the person dealing with the case, but you are expected to know who was driving. There have been some high profile convictions (Manchester United, for example) but also some high profile cases of people getting away with it - ie the Hamiltons.

My boss get zapped from a motorway bridge a couple of yrs and claimed he didn't know who was driving. He asked for the photo and had to go in to see it - it was one of the best shots of him he'd ever seen, and it showed he was in the car on his own! He's assumed at long range the photo wouldn't have been clear.

'They' do say that it's worth challenging these things as there's a good chance it will be dropped. I got 'done' in dubious circumstances but what weighed on my mind was that a FPN means nothing really, it's just a penalty, whereas if you end up in court you then have a conviction on your record (assuming you're found guilty, of course).

 

[calum]

...a FPN means nothing really, it's just a penalty, whereas if you end up in court you then have a conviction on your record (assuming you're found guilty, of course).

I'm not sure there's any difference, really. In both cases you get a line on your licence, a FPN even has a "convicting court" id filled in. About the only real difference is that for an FPN the "date of conviction" field will be blank. You have still been convicted: in effect you have pleaded guilty.

 

[peterchurch]

Just be honest and whoever is guilty should take it on the chin, simple. To run a red light is bad news as either they were driving too fast or weren't paying attention, again simple.

Glen

Why should we payup like sheep when police commisioners lie throught their teeth to get through this very loop hole ? They started this sort of thing off in the first place...

 

[BearFace]

Why should we payup like sheep when police commisioners lie throught their teeth to get through this very loop hole ? They started this sort of thing off in the first place...

If we were French, we'd revolt and blockade the ports and main traffic routes. We'd refuse to be treated like children and we'd undoubtedly see to it that the current injustices metered out to our motorists would be dramatically reduced or eradicated altogether...

But as Brits, we just bow our heads and happily take all the cr*p our system dishes out to us. Our reserve and sense of humour serves us well, but sometimes I just wish we could collectively adopt some of that continental passion and defiance. Until then, we'll be milked dry until we wave the white flag, sell our cars and buy season-tickets for the bus or train...