Pot Hole Damage

[Benjy]

Guys

As some of you know I bought my pride and joy R8 just over 12 months ago and had a fantastic year of ownership. That was up until March when me and the wife were coming back through Maldon Essex and hit a huge pot hole which really shock me and the boss up. To be on the safe side as I use my car for various track days I took the car into Audi just to check it over. Good job I did as the engineer took me to my car up on the ramp to confirm that he had discovered that the offside front wheel is buckled and my new Michelin PSS on that wheel has a slight split in it. To say I was annoyed and very frustrated was an understatement and I asked the dealer to put the details in writing and write up an invoice of how much it would cost to repair as I was going to take this up with the council and try to claim back the money to repair my car, why should I pay for this.

Well I researched how the process works and what is required to claim back from the council and as you can imagine they try every which way but lose to put you off claiming from them. Cut a long story short I have followed suit form the Potholes.co.uk website and all my documents, photos and details of the pothole have been sent to the council. This was on the 7th April and being now we are at the beginning of June and still not heard anything back from them, how long do you think I should wait till I start chasing them up and does anyone else have any experience of anything similar to my situation that can give any advice.

Thanks

 

[tonyc280]

I hit a huge pot hole in my Calibra a few years ago and as you say the council worm and sleaze their way out of everything. The cost of repair to my car was nearly a thousand pounds. Apparently the roads are inspected every three months and if your incident is within this time you don't stand a chance of being paid out. As you can imagine i was absolutely fuming. Cheers, Tony.

 

[Benjy]

Thanks Tony, yes this is what I have been lead to beleive. The bill for the repair to my car is coming in at £2,322, the wheel alone costs £2,000. The only thing I think I have that my support my claim is that the freedom of information details states that someone had already complained about the same pot hole and if they have not fixed it by the time someone else hits it, the council are totally at fault and will have to pay up. Well thats what I have told! I think time will tell.

 

[219]

For the sum of around £30 , you could raise a small claims action in your local court .

This would put the council on the back foot , giving them a fixed timescale in which to defend , or you would win by default .

There's a fair chance you would win if the judge is sympathetic , but at least you would know one way or the other .

 

[Benjy]

Thanks Derek, yes I think due to the cost of this claim if they dont at least offer me something towards the cost of the repair this would be the best option and appreciate your advice.

 

[E270 Owner]

You have to prove neglect to be able to claim.

IE: Pot hole is reported, no action taken to repair it within a reasonable period of time equals neglect on their part.

 

[jaymanek]

Just a basic point but I hope you sent the letter recorded and have you checked its been delivered?

These things can often get thrown out on basics like this.

 

[Rashman]

Really sorry to hear this Henry.
I'm glad you and the missus are ok.. sounds like a pretty hard impact to have caused that damage!

As for chasing them, I'd think it's safe to say that I would have been on their case after a week of sending your letter.
As simple confirmation of receipt would have been enough after a week!

Also sounds like you have followed the correct route and gathered enough supporting evidence too.

I hope this gets resolved for you.

As a side note, it's not just councils that try their hardest to avoid taking responsibility for their actions... I'll update my thread in due course!

 

[Benjy]

Cheers guys, some good advice as I knew I would get from you!

Yes I read your thread Rash and couldnt beleive what Iw as reading. That is terrible and very poor customer service.

 

[kamalpatel12448]

Hey Benjy, this would never have been an issue if you stayed with the 63.

Seriously, really sorry to hear this, be glad you and the car are okay. This has got to be really annoying to say the least. I'm sorry but reasonable time scales have passed and I'd be trying to confirm if the got the claim, if they are acting on it, or what the situation is, and verbally, then decide on a course of action.

I have no experience in pothole damage recovery but had some damage from council to my other MB and I went crazy on them.

Good luck mate and hope to see you soon.

Kamal

 

[Benjy]

Hey Kamal, Long time my friend hope you are well.

Yes I got a letter of confirmation from the council after I sent my details to confirm they had received them but it states to expect not to hear anything for upto 3 months. It's been 2 months and wasn't sure if I should contact them but after the good advice from everyone here I will phone them tomorrow and see what's going on.

 

[cinek]

1. Report the pothole through to the maintaining agent, highlighting the risk to the public it poses.
2. At no point indicate you consider claiming against them.
3. Take detailed photographs and measurement of the pothole.
4. Measure the size and the depth of the pothole.
5. Take more pictures showing the location of the pothole, e.g. centre of the carriageway, tyre tracks, etc.
6. You should receive a confirmation of fault being reported, note the response time they indicate. Cat 1 should be repaired within 24h, Cat 2 within 7 days.
7. Note any stipulation regarding type of the repair, e.g. cold or hot repair.
8. Whatever time frame has been given,return to the location and take more pictures confirming the repair has been done and whether it was to the standard they stated
9. Obtain the code of practice for the local authority, usually called Safety Inspection Manual. In there you will find the frequency of inspections, type of repairs based on the risk factor, i.e. Location of the pothole, type of the road, the depth and size, etc.
10. Cross-reference the above with what was said in the initial response, following your first email. Look for discrepancies and any signs of non compliance with their own internal systems.
11. Wait until the longest possible time frame for the repair has passed, take more photographs of the named pothole.
12. Obtain information from the local authority under Freedom Information Act regarding inspection regimes on that road over last couple of years. No need giving the reason for it, look for anomalies and cross-reference this with their safety manual.
13. At this point you may be able to put a claim against them. Initially write to them directly, be factual, use the evidence you would have gathered by then, be polite and most of all, dont take the pi$$. Ask them to cover the repair, and not to pay for your trip to the moon.

The only bit you can get them on, is to prove their negligence and non compliance to their own procedures. Only then they will be looking to settle this out of court, on as soon as possible basis.

 

[Benjy]

1. Report the pothole through to the maintaining agent, highlighting the risk to the public it poses. 2. At no point indicate you consider claiming against them. 3. Take detailed photographs and measurement of the pothole. 4. Measure the size and the depth of the pothole. 5. Take more pictures showing the location of the pothole, e.g. centre of the carriageway, tyre tracks, etc. 6. You should receive a confirmation of fault being reported, note the response time they indicate. Cat 1 should be repaired within 24h, Cat 2 within 7 days. 7. Note any stipulation regarding type of the repair, e.g. cold or hot repair. 8. Whatever time frame has been given,return to the location and take more pictures confirming the repair has been done and whether it was to the standard they stated 9. Obtain the code of practice for the local authority, usually called Safety Inspection Manual. In there you will find the frequency of inspections, type of repairs based on the risk factor, i.e. Location of the pothole, type of the road, the depth and size, etc. 10. Cross-reference the above with what was said in the initial response, following your first email. Look for discrepancies and any signs of non compliance with their own internal systems. 11. Wait until the longest possible time frame for the repair has passed, take more photographs of the named pothole. 12. Obtain information from the local authority under Freedom Information Act regarding inspection regimes on that road over last couple of years. No need giving the reason for it, look for anomalies and cross-reference this with their safety manual. 13. At this point you may be able to put a claim against them. Initially write to them directly, be factual, use the evidence you would have gathered by then, be polite and most of all, dont try to take the pi$$. Ask them to cover the repair, and not to pay for your trip to the moon. The only bit you can get the, on, is to prove their negligence and non compliance to their own procedures. Only then they will be looking to settle this out of court, on as soon as possible basis.

Thanks Cinek,

Yes these were the steps I took which the pothole.co.uk website advised, I am hoping that on the FOI report that I got an read stated that someone else had also hit the same pothole but they did nothing about it even though this lady did report it so according to the pothole website the council shouldn't have a leg to stand on. But you know what these local authorities are like, anything to not pay out.

 

[cinek]

Thanks Cinek,

Yes these were the steps I took which the pothole.co.uk website advised, I am hoping that on the FOI report that I got an read stated that someone else had also hit the same pothole but they did nothing about it even though this lady did report it so according to the pothole website the council shouldn't have a leg to stand on. But you know what these local authorities are like, anything to not pay out.

Yes and no, it all depends how you approach them.
If you report as a concerned citizen, who cares about safety of others, then do your homework on their internal procedures, whilst gathering more evidence of their own deficiencies and non compliance, they will normally bury themselves without anyones help.

At this point all that has to be done, is to point out to them that they failed to deliver on their own word.

A lot of people will come with all guns blazing, and right from the beginning demanding massive pay outs, claiming for something they have no remote idea about. By then the defendant has all the time in the world to follow the procedures and ensure reasonable effort has been made, hence no breach took place.

 

[cinek]

A lot of people will come with all guns blazing, and right from the beginning demanding massive pay outs, claiming for something they have no remote idea about. By then the defendant has all the time in the world to follow the procedures and ensure reasonable effort has been made, hence no breach took place.

By the way, I wasn't trying to say that you are one of those. I normally deal with legal compliance, where I protect businesses from such claims not enforce them, so plenty of experience with claimants and their sometimes pathetic efforts to get something for nothing.

 

[Benjy]

Not at all Cinek, this is great advice and very much appreciated.

Absolutely to your point about the good citizen bit, I did originally register the pothole on the website as a concerned citizen and sent them an email originally stating that I was concerned about the pothole and a cyclist or motorcyclist could have a nasty accident. The points you raised are exactly what I followed, so hoping this will be enough and they see the error of their ways and pay me out. My R8 is a minter and doesn't have a mark on it so something like this has upset me and if they don't pay out I will replace the wheel and tyre myself as I want the car 100%.

 

[Benjy]

Ok, so spoke to a really nice chap at the council who said that my paperwork was only agreed and sent to the claims department in the last week of May. What that means is that my details and all the information I provided was not rejected or needed to be sent back to me for amendments of any kind. So that is a positive first step. The claims team at Essex Highways would have now received the details of the claim and they will be in touch with me in the next week or so to give me details of who is dealing with my claim, telephone numbers of that person and details of where I stand. TBH I am have a feeling they are going to reject the £2300 estimate I have sent them but this is what it would cost for a new wheel and tyre on my car.

Updates as they come!

Cheers

 

[st13phil]

I completely understand why compensation for damage to vehicles caused by potholes is only available if the injured party can prove negligence on behalf of the agency responsible for maintaining the road, but perhaps it's time to start campaigning for absolute liability?

The presumption has always been that potholes were relatively rare as roads were maintained and surfaces replaced before they deteriorated significantly, and thus periodic inspections at (say) 6-monthly intervals were adequate to deal with the odd pothole that developed.

However, due to many years of failing to fund the upkeep of road surfaces properly, we are now in the position where potholes are commonplace and the road surface is in such a poor state that many new ones appear between the periodic inspections. It strikes me that the only way to focus attention (and funds) on keeping the roads in good condition is for damage caused to vehicles by potholes to result in automatic compensation. After all, why is it unreasonable for me to expect that I can use a public road without risk of incurring damage to my vehicle caused by a failure to properly maintain the road surface?

Last month I visited Sardinia which, as pretty much everyone knows, was battered by massive storms last year that caused huge damage to their roads. What was striking was that with the exception of the odd road that has catastrophically failed and been completely closed as a result, their roads were still in massively better condition than those in the UK.

We are living in a third-world country when it comes to the state of our roads, which are a national disgrace

 

[Benjy]

I completely understand why compensation for damage to vehicles caused by potholes is only available if the injured party can prove negligence on behalf of the agency responsible for maintaining the road, but perhaps it's time to start campaigning for absolute liability?

The presumption has always been that potholes were relatively rare as roads were maintained and surfaces replaced before they deteriorated significantly, and thus periodic inspections at (say) 6-monthly intervals were adequate to deal with the odd pothole that developed.

However, due to many years of failing to fund the upkeep of road surfaces properly, we are now in the position where potholes are commonplace and the road surface is in such a poor state that many new ones appear between the periodic inspections. It strikes me that the only way to focus attention (and funds) on keeping the roads in good condition is for damage caused to vehicles by potholes to result in automatic compensation. After all, why is it unreasonable for me to expect that I can use a public road without risk of incurring damage to my vehicle caused by a failure to properly maintain the road surface?

Last month I visited Sardinia which, as pretty much everyone knows, was battered by massive storms last year that caused huge damage to their roads. What was striking was that with the exception of the odd road that has catastrophically failed and been completely closed as a result, their roads were still in massively better condition than those in the UK.

We are living in a third-world country when it comes to the state of our roads, which are a national disgrace

I could not agree more Phil, the thing that was quite upsetting for me was that when I went to take photos of this particular pothole with my daughter, the amount of cyclists and motorcyclists that nearly hit this thing. We stood at the side of the road flagging down cyclists to avoid it because if they hit it there could have been a seriosu accident, but then a beautiful old MG with the roof down and a guy properly in his late 70's, peek cap on and all, came along didnt see it and hit this thing with an almighty bang. He didnt stop but I was convinced that his car definately sustained some sort of damage. It was quite sickening to see and hear.

To your point though, I totally agree in that if more people did this and put in for claims it might get the local authorities to get their finger out and start fixing some of these roads, as I am sure that cost for cost it wouldn't work out any more expensive then paying out for claims to fix them.