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Prince Albert Road, London - Prius hit Police rider escorting Prince Harry

I used to work with someone who had an accident identical to this. 30mph zone, she was pulling out of a side street and turning right, there was a car coming from the right but she had the clearance to pull out in good time; she just got onto her side of the road into which she was turning and she had a head-on collision with a car that was overtaking the car that she had seen approaching from the right.

Not only was she deemed to be 100% at fault from an insurance point of view, she was done for driving without due car (or careless driving, I cannot remember which).

The injustice of it was - to my mind - outrageous. The fact that the car she hit was comfortably exceeding the speed limit and performing an overtake in an inappropriate place was not relevant, and no action was taken against them at all. This was in a housing estate so all the more reason why I felt that the overtaker should have been found responsible.

I pity the Prius driver in this incident. Any chance that he/she could have argued that he motorbike rider was driving recklessly will be neutralised by the fact they are a Police rider.

Anyway, the Police rider was - in my opinion - performing an incredibly stupid manoeuvre that his training would have taught him not to. He paid a heavy price for it - but I hope he is OK.

Finally, I give this thread till lunchtime before it is closed.;)
 
The reason I posted this was partially because it is very close to where I live - I normally drive through this road twice a day (though I did not go to the office yesterday).

On another note... why did the second rider remove the injured man's crash helmet before the ambulance arrived...? Surely they are trained not to do this?
 
markjay said:
On another note... why did the second rider remove the injured man's crash helmet before the ambulance arrived...? Surely they are trained not to do this?
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I didn't catch that detail. That is an absolute no-no. That's two cardinal rules of motorbiking broken, then. Which outfit was this??
 
Given that Stratford has superb transport links including the Jubilee line, which has a very convenient station at Green Park, a short walk from St James, why the need for a high speed Motorcade?
 
jotter22 said:
I would think making sure he is breathing and has a heart beat are more important!

Tony.
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Neither his breathing nor his heart will be affected by the helmet, although there is a completely understandable instinctive reaction for those assisting is to "give him some air" by removing a biker's helmet.

Numerous bikers, who have suffered a broken spine but would have made a full recovery if properly attended to by the emergency services, have been paralysed from the neck down by well-meaning people removing their helmet and severing the spinal cord in the process. It really is that serious an issue.

The distance that that rider travelled and the fact he went over the bonnet and through the air to get to where he landed are indicators that this was a classic situation where the helmet should have remained in place.
 
prprandall51 said:
Neither his breathing nor his heart will be affected by the helmet, although there is a completely understandable instinctive reaction for those assisting is to "give him some air" by removing a biker's helmet.

Numerous bikers, who have suffered a broken spine but would have made a full recovery if properly attended to by the emergency services, have been paralysed from the neck down by well-meaning people removing their helmet and severing the spinal cord in the process. It really is that serious an issue.

The distance that that rider travelled and the fact he went over the bonnet and through the air to get to where he landed are indicators that this was a classic situation where the helmet should have remained in place.
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Not according to the trainers where i have attended first aid courses.

Tony.
 
jotter22 said:
Not according to the trainers where i have attended first aid courses.

Tony.
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Is this an urban myth, then? I have always been told that the helmet is to stay on in the event of an accident.

The thing is: what benefit is there in removing it? You quote breathing and heart - but I don't see how either of those benefits from the helmet's removal.

From a lay point of view it seems to me that there is only upside to keeping the helmet on and only downside to having someone wrench it off.
 
markjay said:
The reason I posted this was partially because it is very close to where I live - I normally drive through this road twice a day (though I did not go to the office yesterday).

On another note... why did the second rider remove the injured man's crash helmet before the ambulance arrived...? Surely they are trained not to do this?
Click to expand...

prprandall51 said:
I didn't catch that detail. That is an absolute no-no. That's two cardinal rules of motorbiking broken, then. Which outfit was this??
Click to expand...

prprandall51 said:
Neither his breathing nor his heart will be affected by the helmet, although there is a completely understandable instinctive reaction for those assisting is to "give him some air" by removing a biker's helmet.

Numerous bikers, who have suffered a broken spine but would have made a full recovery if properly attended to by the emergency services, have been paralysed from the neck down by well-meaning people removing their helmet and severing the spinal cord in the process. It really is that serious an issue.

The distance that that rider travelled and the fact he went over the bonnet and through the air to get to where he landed are indicators that this was a classic situation where the helmet should have remained in place.
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Is it not remotely conceivable that there may have been a valid reason for the helmet to be removed AND that they are trained in the correct method in doing so?
The LAS are not the only ones trained and qualified to remove bike helmets……..and these are SPG officers, trained to look after VIP's. Do you really think all they have been taught is how to put a plaster on a grazed knee bearing in mind who they have to look after and the potential things (e.g. gunshots wounds) they could conceivably have to deal with?

You are second guessing with no hands on information with all due respect.
 
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prprandall51 said:
Is this an urban myth, then? I have always been told that the helmet is to stay on in the event of an accident.

The thing is: what benefit is there in removing it? You quote breathing and heart - but I don't see how either of those benefits from the helmet's removal.

From a lay point of view it seems to me that there is only upside to keeping the helmet on and only downside to having someone wrench it off.
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If there is damage to the helmet and there is a concern about a head injury AND trained to do so safely, removing a helmet is a valid thing to do.
I have to re-qualify in first aid annually and helmet removal is part of the training and testing EVERY time.
 
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I am first aid trained and also am in the belief that in this case I would have left the helmet in place. The rider (i assume) was breathing and conscious so did not need his airways to be opened. He clearly had an accident where he could have sustained a back injury so removing the helmet single handed should have been a deff no. If he felt the helmet should have been removed then he should have got assistance from another person to stabilise the head and shoulders.
 
prprandall51 said:
Is this an urban myth, then? I have always been told that the helmet is to stay on in the event of an accident.

The thing is: what benefit is there in removing it? You quote breathing and heart - but I don't see how either of those benefits from the helmet's removal.

From a lay point of view it seems to me that there is only upside to keeping the helmet on and only downside to having someone wrench it off.
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I dont think anyone mentioned wrenching it off! And i am only going by what the trainers told us preserving life is the most important part!

Tony.
 
Giantvanman said:
If there is damage to the helmet and there is a concern about a head injury AND trained to do so safely, removing a helmet is a valid thing to do.
I have to re-qualify in first aid annually and helmet removal is part of the training and testing EVERY time.
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I was out riding with a friend a few years ago. When my friend was knocked off his motorbike and thrown, I left his helmet on and did not move him. The ambulance people arrived and they did not move him either. Instead they made full preparations for the move, bringing in a body board and neck brace, clearing the area and then only making the move from the ground to the body board when everything was in place (he had landed in bushes).

I am not 100% sure but I think the helmet stayed on until the neck brace was in position and his body was fully straightened. What I do know is that they didn’t just pop his helmet off and leave his head to flop around.

Unless the Police had a body board and neck brace then I reckon they should not have removed his helmet. But you are right, I am guessing, so let’s flip it the other way round: what good reason would there be for removing a helmet without expert medical advice – and equipment – on hand?
 
prprandall51 said:
What I do know is that they didn’t just pop his helmet off and leave his head to flop around.

Unless the Police had a body board and neck brace then I reckon they should not have removed his helmet. But you are right, I am guessing, so let’s flip it the other way round: what good reason would there be for removing a helmet without expert medical advice – and equipment – on hand?
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1. Breathing……….this is picture snapshot and not a video
2. Bleeding…………


[YOUTUBE]zeQEY59ql3g[/YOUTUBE]

There is no 'popping' involved. but it is important to remember, they make a decision on the situation, not hypotheticals and we can't know what that is without being there or asking them.
 
Giantvanman said:
1. Breathing……….this is picture snapshot and not a video
2. Bleeding…………


[YOUTUBE]zeQEY59ql3g[/YOUTUBE]

There is no 'popping' involved. but it is important to remember, they make a decision on the situation, not hypotheticals and we can't know what that is without being there or asking them.
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How does a helmet restrict air flow?

If there is bleeding - and I assume you mean blood flowing from within the helmet - then this surely is another reason to leave the helmet on.

Thinking about this some more, helmets can suffer huge impacts and show little external signs of damage. If there was evidence on the outer shell of a helmet of a large impact then the chances are that the rider’s body has suffered a massive impact – so all the more reason to keep the helmet on.

I acknowledge that I am not in any way medically qualified – not even done a first aid course – but logic and reasoning indicate that removing a helmet after an incident in which a rider has been thrown over the bonnet of a car and some distance down the road is a job for specially trained medical staff with the right equipment.
 
Maybe he wanted to have a fag.
 
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