Question on buying from Amazon

[Stratman]

I've looked at their FAQs but still can't work out a definitive answer so here goes. This applies specifically to Amazon UK rather than a general import query.

If I buy something from Amazon.co.uk which is sourced from outside the EU (China or Singapore for example), is the displayed price the total I'll end up paying, or will my goods be held hostage by HMRC until I cough up some duty and VAT?

Specifically this camera. The suppliers are in China, so do I end up paying £68.95 or about £80 after HMRC get involved?

 

[cinek]

My wife got me 'hooked' on Amazon few years back and I have been their regular customer since.
Personally, I have never paid any duty, extra VAT or anything else above the price originally quoted, regardless where the item was sent from.

 

[Scott_F]

You could always give Amazon a miss until they start paying their fair share of tax:

BBC News - Amazon UK paid £2.4m tax last year, despite £4bn sales

 

[Stratman]

You could always give Amazon a miss until they start paying their fair share of tax:

BBC News - Amazon UK paid £2.4m tax last year, despite £4bn sales

While I agree with the initial outrage, as far as I can see they pay all the tax the government requires of them. It ill becomes MPs to complain about companies taking advantage of legislation they themselves scrutinised and passed.

 

[Red C220]

I've looked at their FAQs but still can't work out a definitive answer so here goes. This applies specifically to Amazon UK rather than a general import query.

If I buy something from Amazon.co.uk which is sourced from outside the EU (China or Singapore for example), is the displayed price the total I'll end up paying, or will my goods be held hostage by HMRC until I cough up some duty and VAT?

Specifically this camera. The suppliers are in China, so do I end up paying £68.95 or about £80 after HMRC get involved?

We have a store on Amazon, along with eBay and our own website.

You have raised a common misconception about Amazon with this post.

The specific camera in question you are not buying from Amazon at all, you're buying from "BW Corp" who are listing on Amazon marketplace, which essentially is no different to eBay.

Part of listing on Amazon marketplace is a requirement that the final price including all taxes is displayed and that is all you pay. Should any duty arise from the purchase of the product then you'd have a reasonable claim with Amazon.

Ultimately, what you see should be what you pay, but understand you're not buying from Amazon in this case, it's just a sales platform.

 

[Scott_F]

While I agree with the initial outrage, as far as I can see they pay all the tax the government requires of them. It ill becomes MPs to complain about companies taking advantage of legislation they themselves scrutinised and passed.

They do indeed pay what is required of them - but only after they have engaged in the often complex "aggressive avoidance schemes" mentioned in the article.

I've bought from Amazon in the past but doubt that I will again.

 

[c63chris]

To the OP, if you buy from someone who ships from abroad it all depends on where you live. If you live where I do and your post goes through Gatwick then it all gets stopped and you have to pay duty. I know of friends in other parts of the country where the goods just arrive. Bit of a lottery and it also depends on what they out on the parcel. Some suppliers put a deliberately low value to help you.

 

[markjay]

You could always give Amazon a miss until they start paying their fair share of tax:

BBC News - Amazon UK paid £2.4m tax last year, despite £4bn sales

What exactly is the connection between Sales and Tax? There is no Sales Tax in the UK, only in the US.

And as for Corporation Tax, I always thought that Corporation Tax is paid on profit, irrespective of turnover/sales? A company running a loss for example may have massive sales figures but will still owe nothing to HMRC in CT.

I would assume that Amazon UK filled HMRC coffers with not inconsiderable amounts through PAYE employees Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions, as well a tidy sum raised through VAT on their VATable sales. So HMRC has no reason to be unhappy, surely?

But Corporation Tax is unrelated to the above.... the headline is purposely misleading I think. They do try to correct themselves in the article itself however:

'Companies only have to pay tax on any profits they make rather than the value of their sales.'

 

[markjay]

To the OP, if you buy from someone who ships from abroad it all depends on where you live. If you live where I do and your post goes through Gatwick then it all gets stopped and you have to pay duty. I know of friends in other parts of the country where the goods just arrive. Bit of a lottery and it also depends on what they out on the parcel. Some suppliers put a deliberately low value to help you.

My wife got me 'hooked' on Amazon few years back and I have been their regular customer since.
Personally, I have never paid any duty, extra VAT or anything else above the price originally quoted, regardless where the item was sent from.

While in principle I agree with c63chris, my own experience has been similar to that of cinek - I have always paid the price showing on Amazon even for items shipped from Hong Kong, never been asked for anything more.

Said that, I did experience cases where the shipper demanded various taxes on purchases from outside the EU, but these came from FedEx/UPS/DHL etc in relation to orders placed online but NOT with Amazon. Not sure if it's a 'rule', just my experience.

 

[Scott_F]

What exactly is the connection between Sales and Tax? There is no Sales Tax in the UK, only in the US.

And as for Corporation Tax, I always thought that Corporation Tax is paid on profit, irrespective of turnover/sales? A company running a loss for example may have massive sales figures but will still owe nothing to HMRC in CT.

I would assume that Amazon UK filled HMRC coffers with not inconsiderable amounts through PAYE employees Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions, as well a tidy sum raised through VAT on their VATable sales. So HMRC has no reason to be unhappy, surely?

But Corporation Tax is unrelated to the above.... the headline is purposely misleading I think. They do try to correct themselves in the article itself however:

'Companies only have to pay tax on any profits they make rather than the value of their sales.'

And large corporations are always inventing new ways to minimise their reported profits and therefore the amount of corporation tax that they pay. In this case, Amazon UK is declared as a service provider to the relatively small parent company in Luxembourg with its much more favourable tax regime.

As for PAYE and NI, it seems that the taxpayer is subsidising the creation of minimum wage warehouse jobs so I don't think HMRC owes Amazon much of a debt of gratitude on that score either.

 

[Piff]

I've looked at their FAQs but still can't work out a definitive answer so here goes. This applies specifically to Amazon UK rather than a general import query.

If I buy something from Amazon.co.uk which is sourced from outside the EU (China or Singapore for example), is the displayed price the total I'll end up paying, or will my goods be held hostage by HMRC until I cough up some duty and VAT?

Specifically this camera. The suppliers are in China, so do I end up paying £68.95 or about £80 after HMRC get involved?

I bought one of them, although IIRC I bought from the retailer in china - Fox something or other. Before delivery, uk courier required me to pay an additional £20ish, half of which was their fee for handling the transaction with HMRC

 

[IanA2]

I bought one of them, although IIRC I bought from the retailer in china - Fox something or other. Before delivery, uk courier required me to pay an additional £20ish, half of which was their fee for handling the transaction with HMRC

Yes, I had something similar with some software (needed it on a disc) I bought recently from the States. The price was software plus postage plus taxes/duty plus handling. Worked no problems.

As far as OP is concerned, as others have said, with Amazon you pay the price on the tin.

 

[grober]

And as for Corporation Tax, I always thought that Corporation Tax is paid on profit, irrespective of turnover/sales? A company running a loss for example may have massive sales figures but will still owe nothing to HMRC in CT.
I would assume that Amazon UK filled HMRC coffers with not inconsiderable amounts through PAYE employees Income Tax and National Insurance

Except that Amazon benefit from a workforce who have all been educated at state expense, whose health care needs are met by the state, whose properties are guarded from attack by the state, whose premises are served by a transport infrastructure paid in the main by the state, whose local delivery often depended until recently on a state owned postal service, whose purchasers of goods are often state employees---- the list goes on. And yet somehow the benefits of this societal structure did nothing apparently to help Amazon's profits? Amazon who apparently only exist in an alternative reality from the rest of us. They apparently live in a small office in Luxemburg and not in a large shed in Glenrothes. Makes you wonder where they put all the parcels.
Time to introduce a bit of ipso facto reality to HMRC tax policy
Amazon Facing Fresh UK Tax Avoidance Row

 

[Deleted member 37751]

As for PAYE and NI, it seems that the taxpayer is subsidising the creation of minimum wage warehouse jobs so I don't think HMRC owes Amazon much of a debt of gratitude on that score either.

Not only minimum wage, a great deal are on zero hour contracts too, giving them almost no job security whatsoever, then throw in their anti-union stance and you can see how where some of their vast profits come from.

I've never used Amazon and never will.

 

[Sp!ke]

This could indeed incur delays in shipping and customs and handling fees.

There are lots of UK sellers on Ebay selling this item that have local stock.

sj4000 | eBay

I bought one from the seller below and had it delivered within 3 days.

sj4000 from cctvdigi-uk | eBay

 

[Stratman]

Thanks for the links Sp!ke.

A yellow SJ4000 is on its way. At less than one third of the price of a Go Pro it merits investigation.

 

[Sp!ke]

Buy an extendable go pro pole as well, it makes a big difference with what you can do with it.

 

[markjay]

And large corporations are always inventing new ways to minimise their reported profits and therefore the amount of corporation tax that they pay. In this case, Amazon UK is declared as a service provider to the relatively small parent company in Luxembourg with its much more favourable tax regime...

Be it as it may.... I still maintain that the BBC headline was misleading, and that the so-called 'explanation' in the text in fact contradicts the headline.

'Amazon allegedly move profit to Luxembourg in order to reduce the amount of tax they pay in the UK' would have been far more appropriate but far less 'sexy', to use an old Tony Blair phrase.

It is sad to see the good old BBC utilising Daily Mail tactics to attract readers.

...As for PAYE and NI, it seems that the taxpayer is subsidising the creation of minimum wage warehouse jobs so I don't think HMRC owes Amazon much of a debt of gratitude on that score either.

I don't necessarily disagree, but this is at best guesswork...? You suggest that Amazon are receiving government subsidies and employ a large amount of minimum wage workers. Has anyone done the maths? i.e. how much are Amazon receiving in state subsidies, and how much revenue it generates to HMRC in IT, NI, and VAT? I am aware that there is no VAT on books, but even assuming that only half of Amazon's sales are VATable, it still brings in a net annual income of £400,000,000.00 to HMRC, collected from the UK public?

 

[Sp!ke]

Low paid workers and those on zero hour contracts will often also have to receive benefits on top of their salaries in order to survive.

So potentially, instead of these large companies being net contributors, the public are often having to subsidise these salaries while profits are off-shored.

It is a really great business model and if the system allows it then why wouldn't businesses take full advantage of it whilst they are able to?

 

[Scott_F]

I don't necessarily disagree, but this is at best guesswork...? You suggest that Amazon are receiving government subsidies and employ a large amount of minimum wage workers. Has anyone done the maths? i.e. how much are Amazon receiving in state subsidies, and how much revenue it generates to HMRC in IT, NI, and VAT? I am aware that there is no VAT on books, but even assuming that only half of Amazon's sales are VATable, it still brings in a net annual income of £400,000,000.00 to HMRC, collected from the UK public?

I'm not suggesting anything - I'm reading the article. I quote:

"The £2.4m tax bill was just below the £2.5m aid it received from the Scottish government last year to expand its warehouse operations in Dunfermline and Gourock."

And since much of this work will pay minimum wage (and quite possibly on a zero hours contract as pointed out earlier) then the income tax and NI raised will be rather low I'm afraid.