R129 SL 500 ball joints

[Skyedriver]

Was there a definite change over date from press-in to complete wishbone required?
A well known parts supplier lists this for the press-in type:

• 280 1994-2001
• 300 1895-2001
• 320 1994-2001
• 420 1986-1989
• 500 1986-1992

Why only to 1992 for the 500, they think it was a change to complete wishbones from 92 onwards

 

[Doodle]

I'd be suspicious of that supplier's accuracy - for a start the 420 listing is for the 107 which is completely different!

To the best of my knowledge, it is dependent on the brakes fitted. This is governed by the engine size and the options fitted (specifically ESP).

 

[Skyedriver]

I'd be suspicious of that supplier's accuracy - for a start the 420 listing is for the 107 which is completely different!

To the best of my knowledge, it is dependent on the brakes fitted. This is governed by the engine size and the options fitted (specifically ESP).

Thanks Doodle, to be fair to the supplier they say for the 107 & 129.

Is there a simple way of telling which type is fitted without starting to dismantle everything. (If the ball joint doesn't come out of the arm when clouted with a big hammer etc....) Is the bottom arm a different shape?

 

[alabbasi]

It happened when they went to the big brake setup, at the same time the engines switched from the m119 to m113. The bigger calipers won't clear the old control arms

 

[Doodle]

Thanks Doodle, to be fair to the supplier they say for the 107 & 129.

Is there a simple way of telling which type is fitted without starting to dismantle everything. (If the ball joint doesn't come out of the arm when clouted with a big hammer etc....) Is the bottom arm a different shape?

Yes. Arms with removable joints have two little "ears" on the casting surrounding the joint. The complete ones don't.

It happened when they went to the big brake setup, at the same time the engines switched from the m119 to m113. The bigger calipers won't clear the old control arms

Long before that. Cast-in ball joints started with 320mm discs, which from memory should be V8s and V12s from around 1993/4ish or anything equipped with ESP. The M113 and Brembo/334mm change was MY99.

 

[Skyedriver]

Thanks for that, as far as I know I have the older press in joints, will whip a wheel off tomorrow to look. It's a late 93 car, according to the parts supplier it should have the cast in joints as it's a V8. Presumably, I can fit the later units in place of the press in ones without a problem. The position of the ball joint is the same distance from the chassis locations? What's required to replace the whole arm? Spring compressors, decent sockets, how difficult is it?

 

[Doodle]

Thanks for that, as far as I know I have the older press in joints, will whip a wheel off tomorrow to look. It's a late 93 car, according to the parts supplier it should have the cast in joints as it's a V8. Presumably, I can fit the later units in place of the press in ones without a problem. The position of the ball joint is the same distance from the chassis locations? What's required to replace the whole arm? Spring compressors, decent sockets, how difficult is it?

I'd ignore the parts supplier and go with what's actually on the car. You can put the later arms on, but I would stick with the press in arms if you have them, they're cheaper to repair given the state of our roads.

Changing the whole arm requires the proper telescopic spring compressor (outside clamp one won't do), it's not difficult if you're reasonable with the tools but separating the balljoint can be a pain - sometimes it's easier to unbolt the hub carrier/knuckle from the shock unit and then work on it away from the car. Otherwise it's just standard tools really.

 

[grober]

The inner bolts for the control arms use excentric washers for fine adjustments to caster/camber so make sure you mark the settings before removal of the old arm mounting bolts .
this is for a w124 but essentially the same
http://w124-zone.com/downloads/MB CD/W124/w124CD2/Program/Chassis/33-0510.pdf

 

[alabbasi]

I have a 1998 SL500 which is the last year of the M119 engine and replaced the ball joints in the lower control arm ball joints. The control arms on my car has a W124 part #. To my knowledge, every car that I've seen built prior to the 99 MY had the W124 control arm , but none of my cars were V12's and all had traction control.

Long before that. Cast-in ball joints started with 320mm discs, which from memory should be V8s and V12s from around 1993/4ish

 

[Skyedriver]

Thanks everyone, changing the whole arm would get me fresh inner bushes, the ones on the car are, I assume, 27 year old but replacing like with like seems sensible. And cheaper. I'm doing some other jobs (track rods, shock top mounts) but might hand the ball joints over to a local garage. The local MB Specialist is good but they're over two hours away and think ball joints might take more than a day so it's an overnight stay somewhere.

 

[Doodle]

I have a 1998 SL500 which is the last year of the M119 engine and replaced the ball joints in the lower control arm ball joints. The control arms on my car has a W124 part #. To my knowledge, every car that I've seen built prior to the 99 MY had the W124 control arm , but none of my cars were V12's and all had traction control.

The US cars run to a different spec, the 500s used the smaller 300mm brakes (and therefore early style arms) until the MY99 changes.

 

[ray_hennig]

Was there a definite change over date from press-in to complete wishbone required?
A well known parts supplier lists this for the press-in type:

• 280 1994-2001
• 300 1895-2001
• 320 1994-2001
• 420 1986-1989
• 500 1986-1992

Why only to 1992 for the 500, they think it was a change to complete wishbones from 92 onwards

I seriously recommend you look at the MB parts catalogue or ask MB themselves for the parts. Your listing looks far from complete.

Good hunting.

RayH

 

[Skyedriver]

When I ask the MB dealer parts dept, they ask the reg no*, and tell me it has a bottom arm with an integral ball joint. IT HASN'T!
(Sorry must learn to control my temper). It's a bottom arm, with the lugs as per the pic above. It's a pressed in joint. I've looked.
I think the problem is that the car, manufactured I understand in 1993 may have originally been sold to another part of the world and didn't arrive in the UK until 1994.
Or it was old stock ......
Can anyone advise, is the bottom ball joint on say a 1991/2 SL500 the same as a W124?
Thanks to all I've tangled up in this web

* I get this all the time with my Caterham and when I had a TVR, they ask the reg no and then we go around in circles as I tell them what the part is off but they can't locate it without reference to the reg.

 

[Doodle]

Don't overcomplicate the situation, go with what's on the car. If you currently have press-fit lower arms then Lemforder 10726 02 is the ball joint, also known as A1243330327

Genuine ball joint from MB Newcastle - Genuine Mercedes-Benz W124 W202 Front Suspension Bottom Ball Joint A1243330327 | eBay

 

[Skyedriver]

Thanks Doodle, it was MB Newcastle I contacted, because that link is for a W124...That's where we got into the loop of reg no, must be integral etc. I had been told that the non-MB ones upset the front geometry somehow but also heard that Lemforder items are original fitment on many cars. Now to decide if I'm going to bite the bullet and tackle the job myself or hand it to the local garage. I'm doing the strut tops and track rod and the tool to press out the old joint is less than an hour rate at the local garage. Just don't want to get half way through and find I can't get the joint out and it's too knackered to go back together.

 

[Doodle]

Lemforder would be OE supplier.
There's a degree of parts commonality in MBs of this age so those front ball joints are fitted 124s, 129s, 201s and 202s from memory. The rear multilink suspension arms cover a multitude of models over something like a 20 year period.