Rear Facing Speed Cameras in Police Cars?

[Dieselman]

On this note, if you ran someone over would that be a motoring offense or a criminal offense?

 

[MarriedBlonde]

And spoil your fun?

 

[Dieselman]

And spoil your fun?

You made a statement...back it...

 

[DSM10000]

Ok i will hold my hands up and apologies stating i am wrong if you can show me where on a uk law referrence site or the dft's site or in the rtoa or the rta where it states speeding is not a criminal offence.

And i dont mean piston heads forum or something similar.

J.

If you have received a fine and points on your driving licence for a speeding "offence" do you also have a criminal record for that "offence"?

You do not, ergo it is not a criminal offence and therefore you do not receive a criminal record.

 

[Dieselman]

If you have received a fine and points on your driving licence for a speeding "offence" do you also have a criminal record for that "offence"?

You do not, ergo it is not a criminal offence and therefore you do not receive a criminal record.

Extrapolating that further, you can take a speed awareness course and have no other penalty, so not even points and fine.

When people are charged with criminal offenses they now have to give DNA and fingerprint samples.
How does a Gatso/Truvello do that?



Internet forums...Aren't they great...

 

[DSM10000]

Extrapolating that further, you can take a speed awareness course and have no other penalty, so not even points and fine.

When people are charged with criminal offenses they now have to give DNA and fingerprint samples.
How does a Gatso/Truvello do that?



Internet forums...Aren't they great...

I do wonder if some people are happy to be misinformed and also happy to remain so or just use the internet to make spurious points!

I find that this forum often brings up things I was hitherto unaware of and will make me re-think an opinion. I enjoy having an open mind and being receptive to learning

 

[brucemillar]

No, you are committing an offence, you do not receive a criminal record for speeding, it is an offence against the Road Traffic Act.

It becomes a criminal offence when combined with other factors , for example, if it brings a charge and conviction for dangerous driving .

Criminal law, and motoring law are two distinctly different branches of the legal system in the UK. Similarly, there is difference between statute law, and criminal law

This is THE correct answer.

Speeding on it's own is not considered a criminal offence.

There are advisory and hard limits set out for the Police and the courts to determine at which point speeding could be considered as "dangerous driving"that is a criminal offence"or "driving without due care and attention"also a criminal offence.

So. If you were caught doing 40 in a 30 mph limit and responded to the Police defending your speed stating I had no idea what speed I was doing officer. The Police may take a view that your defense is an admission of criminality. i.e. Driving without due care and attention. It could also be considered as Dangerous Driving. You have now admitted that you had no awareness of the driving standards required to ensure your safety and that of other road users.

If, on the other hand you accept that you were indeed speeding. Then you would, in all probability receive a fine and penalty points, at the side of the road, but NO criminal conviction. You may even get away with a talking too.

Now. If you were driving at more than twice the speed limit in a built up area where there was a (real or perceived) danger to safety. It is likely that the Police would follow guidelines and issue you with a ticket and report you for dangerous driving or driving without due care. You then have to satisfy the courts (not the Police) that your speed was neither dangerous or careless, or indeed was recorded incorrectly.

You could re-mortgage your house and hire one of the many solicitors who specialise in keeping people their licenses in such circumstances. This is usually done, not by any trickery. Rather by demonstrating breaches in correct procedure or possible extreme hardship to you if convicted.

So be warned.

I didn't know what the speed limit was here officer
I always drive this road at this speed.
I didn't see you.
I was rushing to get petrol
I read on MB Club that it was OK

Any of the above could get you in hotter water than.

Sorry about that. It was stupid of me.

Back to the OP.

Passing a marked Police Car whilst exceeding the speed limit is likely to be seen by the Police and the courts as simple stupidity (which it is). Attempting to defend it will lead to irrational statements about your own abilities which will simply infuriate the magistrates and give the Police more anecdotal funnies for their weekly Blog.

 

[Dieselman]

You don't get a criminal conviction for driving without due care and attention, you get a CD10 on your license.

Dangerous driving can get one a criminal conviction.

 

[E55BOF]

On this note, if you ran someone over would that be a motoring offense or a criminal offense?

Spelling. See me.

Sorry for being offencive...

I'm not sure what you are all arguing about now. Speeding is a Road Traffic offence, not an offence dealt with under criminal law. If it was a criminal offence, you could receive a caution for it, but not a fixed penalty. There's no money for the guv'mint in that. (Did somebody mention the Daily Wail? No, but they will, they will...)

 

[Dieselman]

Spelling. See me.

Sorry for being offencive...

I'm not sure what you are all arguing about now. Speeding is a Road Traffic offence, not an offence dealt with under criminal law. If it was a criminal offence, you could receive a caution for it, but not a fixed penalty. There's no money for the guv'mint in that. (Did somebody mention the Daily Wail? No, but they will, they will...)

I'm not arguing, that was my point, it was a marriedblond that had a differing viewpoint.
Why did you pick my post to query that?

My other question was a genuine one.

 

[brucemillar]

You don't get a criminal conviction for driving without due care and attention, you get a CD10 on your license.

Dangerous driving can get one a criminal conviction.

Correct. However be very careful. The lines between the two get blurred very quickly. Magistrates are well used to solicitors going all out to accept Driving without due care, to avoid the Dangerous Driving.

Usually the biggest danger here is the driver if allowed to speak. They **** it up for themselves in an attempt to outsmart everybody they often talk themselves into Dangerous Driving charges.

 

[E55BOF]

. Passing a marked Police Car whilst exceeding the speed limit is likely to be seen by the Police as simple stupidity (which it is).

Spot on. Don't tweak their tails; they won't like it.

 

[Gazzdid]

Yes! Finally a factual explanation without the need for a dictionary or the urge to ram ones head up ones own wall what what :-D

Place tell me this case is now closed for everyone's sanity haha

 

[Gazzdid]

Oops I meant please not place! Maybe a dictionary is required after all? Or maybe it was my sanity slipping away haha

 

[Dieselman]

While we are still here, does anyone want to take a stab at whether running someone over is a motoring or criminal offence? (assuming it is the car drivers fault)

 

[brucemillar]

I would say it depends on the circumstances.

Accidental. Or. Deliberate.

Sent from my iPhoney Wonie using MBClub UK

 

[Mr E]

While we are still here, does anyone want to take a stab at whether running someone over is a motoring or criminal offence? (assuming it is the car drivers fault)

Wouldn't that depend on what the driver was "charged" with, and the circumstances, and what the CPS think can be made to stick?

Running someone over may not even be the fault of a driver, with no action taken...

Or could result in, say, Undue Care and Attention...

Or, if considered to be deliberate, could result in murder charges.

 

[Dieselman]

Running someone over may not even be the fault of a driver, with no action taken...

I was deliberately specific to stop debate on that point.

There are more options yet.

 

[Giantvanman]

While we are still here, does anyone want to take a stab at whether running someone over is a motoring or criminal offence? (assuming it is the car drivers fault)

Only when it falls into the category for death by dangerous driving, death by careless driving, serious injury by dangerous driving, dangerous driving, etc etc does it become an imprisonable offence.

For the pedants, this includes the above (death or injury by dangerous or careless) whilst uninsured or no licence or driving whilst disqualified.

The clue is always in the sentencing levels i.e. is it a summary offence only offence (careless driving= points/fine/disqual) or does it attract a custodial sentence?

I am ignoring the deliberate acts that would fall under other legislation.

 

[E55BOF]

Quite so. It would all depend on the circumstances of the actual event. Leaving aside deliberately running someone over, on one end of the scale is Knobby Gobby Chav in his 'tuned' Corsa racing his equally intelligent mate in his 'tuned' Fiesta at 60 mph in a 30 limit, and Granny doesn't see them coming and steps out in front; Death by Dangerous Driving. At the other end is sensible me (don't laugh...) backing out of a parking space at 3 mph and Granny doesn't notice I'm moving, falls over her own feet when I gently touch her, and bashes her head on the kerb. Accident, I would hope...