Recall - software update performed, EML on when collected

[markjay]

I appreciate that this was a recall and that the work was arranged by MB and not directly between you and the dealer.

But Mercedes Benz Customer Services and the dealer are very likely to be two separate legal entities (even in the event that the dealership is owned by MB and not franchised).

So potentially when you say that you have contacted the 'HQ' you may have in fact been contacting a different commercial organisation.

I think that you should try raising it directly with the dealer's service department first. You won't be asking them for a diagnosis, you will simply be asking them to check and see if the EML is the result of the work they have carried-out on your car.

And unfortunately the longer you leave it before you contact the dealer directly, the less likely you are to get a positive result from them.

 

[markjay]

Incidentally... talking hypothetically, even if it is a failed NOx sensor, and even if the EML came-up only after the new software was applied, it is quite feasible that the new software simply has a lower threshold regarding the performance of the NOx sensor, so the same NOx sensor that previously didn't bring-up the EML, does now.

The manufacturer will claim in these circumstances that the NOx sensor on your 10 year's old 200,000 miles car was malfunctioning well before the car went in, and that the new software is simply flagging-up the failed sensor, while the old software didn't.

As for the fact that they shouldn't have handed you back the car with the EML on, you are absolutely right, but this merits an apology and possibly some compensation for your wasted time, but it does not automatically qualify the fault for a free repair.

This is probably not what you wanted to hear, but this is why I would have tried to see if I can reach an amicable resolution directly with the garage the following day.

The Ombudsman may get you there in the end, but it's a long and winding road.

 

[MBCF]

It's very unclear, as far as I can tell:

MB issued the recall
Vertu HQ responded to my email sent to the service area of the MB website (I was trying to send to my local dealer which is a Vertu franchisee)
Vertu franchisee carried out the update
Vertu HQ is the email address I notified after collection who responded with the £99 quote
MB CS recall (email address from the recall letter) copied into both emails since collection

"I think that you should try raising it directly with the dealer's service department first. You won't be asking them for a diagnosis, you will simply be asking them to check and see if the EML is the result of the work they have carried-out on your car."

I think this would be the most sensible next step, which is effectively what I was asking them to do in the first place.

 

[MBCF]

Incidentally... talking hypothetically, even if it is a failed NOx sensor, and even if the EML came-up only after the new software was applied, it is quite feasible that the new software simply has a lower threshold regarding the performance of the NOx sensor, so the same NOx sensor that previously didn't bring-up the EML, does now.

The manufacturer will claim in these circumstances that the NOx sensor on your 10 year's old 200,000 miles car was malfunctioning well before the car went in, and that the new software is simply flagging-up the failed sensor, while the old software didn't.

As for the fact that they shouldn't have handed you back the car with the EML on, you are absolutely right, but this merits an apology and possibly some compensation for your wasted time, but it does not automatically qualify the fault for a free repair.

This is probably not what you wanted to hear, but this is why I would have tried to see if I can reach an amicable resolution directly with the garage the following day.

The Ombudsman may get you there in the end, but it's a long and winding road.

Apparently this is a well-known issue, someone else mentioned this:

"The issue you have now, is due to earlier unresolved faults the car was built with. They have been secretly trying to resolve a small hardware fault in emissions sensors for other reasons, for many years (NOX sensors). The original cheap sensors do not work reliably and two later versions exists. One) a small improvement over the junk it had, but still defective. Two) The current version of the sensor (but it operates differently requiring vastly different software). I guess when the emission fix update was written, Mercedes Germany didn't realise there are still lots of cars with the old faulty NOX sensors so the emission fix was written incorporating two features, the NOX sensor new way of working and the emission fiddle resolution... but that later engine management software only works correctly in conjunction with the later NOX sensors."

If the above is true, I am surprised that there is not another class action related to this. I have read similar issues on multiple forums and the NOx sensor has always been the culprit.

Edit: I thought this was already posted in this thread, I am trying to keep up with responses from multiple forums and it is getting quite confusing for me - apologies if I have referred to something without referencing it

 

[markjay]

So either the new software is incompatible with the old sensors... or the old sensor was faulty for a long time (perhaps from the factory), and the new software simply flagged-up the existing fault.

Not sure we'll ever get a definitive answer though...

 

[MBCF]

My thoughts exactly, quite the mess!

I would have thought if MB are aware, they would not want customers flagging this up to the regulators for potentially yet another costly recall.

If nothing else, hopefully MB recall CS see sense and step in, it is their software update after all.

Anyone aware of what the procedure would be to report to the regulators if the software update is indeed putting cars into limp mode, it seems it is the German regulator which mandated this recall?

 

[Fununcle]

My thoughts exactly, quite the mess!

I would have thought if MB are aware, they would not want customers flagging this up to the regulators for potentially yet another costly recall.

If nothing else, hopefully MB recall CS see sense and step in, it is their software update after all.

Anyone aware of what the procedure would be to report to the regulators if the software update is indeed putting cars into limp mode, it seems it is the German regulator which mandated this recall?

As it stands you have absolutely no idea whether the software update has caused the eml to come on, the talk of regulators and not talking to the servicing dealer is a massive over reaction.
Until proved otherwise this is the dictionary definition of a coincidence.

 

[MBCF]

Just to clarify, I thought I was going through the correct process to speak to the servicing dealer when I sent my initial email, the responses to this thread made me aware that I may need to contact the individual dealer directly.

My reference to regulators was based on the many reports I have read online where other customers have had a similar experience to me - not just my own. A one off could be a coincidence, when it happens time and again then they would have a hard time convincing anyone that it is a coincidence - especially with their software track record.

 

[whitenemesis]

My reference to regulators was based on the many reports I have read online where other customers have had a similar experience to me - not just my own. A one off could be a coincidence, when it happens time and again then they would have a hard time convincing anyone that it is a coincidence - especially with their software track record.

What was the outcome of all those other occurrences?

 

[MBCF]

What was the outcome of all those other occurrences?

NOx sensors from what I have read. I have only read of one dealer that repaired out of their own pocket and another that refunded after the customer complained that the other dealer did not charge.