Red Diesel withdrawn for road use?

smillion

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Has anyone heard of this? From April it seems vehicles including road sweepers, tractors and road going plant have to use white diesel instead of red diesel. This is effectively doubling the cost of fuel for one of of my friends' business. Another stealth tax to clobber Jo Public
 

recycled

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not heard yet, but not surprised. The more people use it, the more likely it will be taxed.
Same For LPG If everyone switches, the posts will be moved. Was diesel not cheaper than petrol once. then 4*. LRP. unleaded.
I guess we all have to hunker down. shoes will be next to prevent us walking too much.
 

Mr E

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Has anyone heard of this? From April it seems vehicles including road sweepers, tractors and road going plant have to use white diesel instead of red diesel. This is effectively doubling the cost of fuel for one of of my friends' business. Another stealth tax to clobber Jo Public
I'd not heard any of the farmers round my way moaning about this, so had a look at HMRC Reference Notice 75 (Dec 2007).

The regs on tractors have not changed.

Road Construction Vehicles has been removed as an exempted category. Road Surfacing Vehicles and Tar Sprayers have been included as new categories.

RVCs were a restricted category in terms of it's definition anyway, and a quick uneducated read would seem to show that it's a clarification / loophole closure.


AFAIK the duty change on fuel for leisure boats (and private aircraft, if I read it correctly) is due to EU alignment of application of fuel duty.
 

gaz_l

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"8.10 Snow clearing vehicles

A vehicle is an excepted vehicle when it is being used to clear snow from public roads by means of a snow plough or similar device (whether or not forming part of the vehicle) or when it is travelling to or from the place where it is to be or has been used for that purpose. "




Seems like a good loophole to me.. fit a snowplough to the front of the car (a useful addition anyway, for scooping wildlife/pedestrians/cyclists out of the way). If challenged by police as to "where are you off to, then?" reply "Finland" in a confident tone and continue on with your journey..

Cheers,


Gaz
 

Count Chocula

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"8.10 Snow clearing vehicles

A vehicle is an excepted vehicle when it is being used to clear snow from public roads by means of a snow plough or similar device (whether or not forming part of the vehicle) or when it is travelling to or from the place where it is to be or has been used for that purpose. "




Seems like a good loophole to me.. fit a snowplough to the front of the car (a useful addition anyway, for scooping wildlife/pedestrians/cyclists out of the way). If challenged by police as to "where are you off to, then?" reply "Finland" in a confident tone and continue on with your journey..

Cheers,


Gaz
genius!
 

TomTanderson

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I'd not heard any of the farmers round my way moaning about this, so had a look at HMRC Reference Notice 75 (Dec 2007).

The regs on tractors have not changed.

Road Construction Vehicles has been removed as an exempted category. Road Surfacing Vehicles and Tar Sprayers have been included as new categories.

RVCs were a restricted category in terms of it's definition anyway, and a quick uneducated read would seem to show that it's a clarification / loophole closure.


AFAIK the duty change on fuel for leisure boats (and private aircraft, if I read it correctly) is due to EU alignment of application of fuel duty.
Well done - somebody actually went and found out the truth rather then present us all with the usual tedious knee jerk "poor motorist stealth tax" crap. If forum rules prevent me having to wade through some of the more extreme rants that are based on some fantasy far from the truth then I think that is rather cool :D

I love the way that even after your post there are still people complaining of it being another "stealth tax". I think "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story" would be a great tagline for these forums but I fear there would be too much competition for it :p
 

janner

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Actually the government has been stealth taxing us via red diesel for the last couple of years. The tax on it has been rising at many times inflation and as a result we all pay more for things like food. In 2006 the duty on red was 6.44p, it's now 10.07p


Edit...
Don't even get me started on fuel duty for leisure boats :eek: :mad:
 
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GRAV888

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I got pulled over once by HMRC as I was seen filling up my lorry on CCTV at J13 on the M1 on the red diesel pump.
What they failed to see on the CCTV, was I was filling up 2x45 gallon drums on the front of my low loader trailer for use in the 360 Cat that was also on the trailer.
Didn't stop them checking my tank though, even when I told them and produced both the receipt for that and the one for the white diesel on another pump 5 minutes before then.:rolleyes:
 
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smillion

smillion

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Well done - somebody actually went and found out the truth rather then present us all with the usual tedious knee jerk "poor motorist stealth tax" crap. If forum rules prevent me having to wade through some of the more extreme rants that are based on some fantasy far from the truth then I think that is rather cool


I love the way that even after your post there are still people complaining of it being another "stealth tax". I think "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story" would be a great tagline for these forums but I fear there would be too much competition for it
Tell all that to my friend who runs road sweepers; who has just had his fuel bill doubled; and who is now wrestling with the challenge of passing on the increased costs to a depressed condtruction industry.

He runs his own business. Has been doing it for years. And only found out about the rule change 6 weeks ago. Like I say, stealth ..... :mad:
 

glojo

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I got pulled over once by HMRC as I was seen filling up my lorry on CCTV at J13 on the M1 on the red diesel pump.
What they failed to see on the CCTV, was I was filling up 2x45 gallon drums on the front of my low loader trailer for use in the 360 Cat that was also on the trailer.
Didn't stop them checking my tank though, even when I told them and produced both the receipt for that and the one for the white diesel on another pump 5 minutes before then.:rolleyes:
THANK GOODNESS you weren't tempted.

I didn't realise red diesel was so readily available.

regards
John
 

GRAV888

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THANK GOODNESS you weren't tempted.

I didn't realise red diesel was so readily available.

regards
John
It is readily available at most truckstops.
In the last fuel protests, we were allowed (at the end of them mind) to use red in the lorries, but had to keep records and declare to HMRC how much we had used and then pay the correct duty as if it were white.

I drove a Mercedes Actros then and it didn't like red one bit.
 

barryj

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I have never understood why there is any need for Red diesel, for instance why should someone running a road sweeper business pay less then someone running a road haulage business? I am sure that I am missing somthing but I would assume that Red is on its way out as policing it probably costs a fortune (I am not going to say as much as the rise in tax from withdrawing it but who knows?).

I have a fleet of 11 vehicles and have offset the extra £7k or so a month that I am paying on fuel by very slightly increased prices on each product I sell, its a pretty simple business process that involves recovering all cost ups by either CIP (continuous improvement) or product price increases. So far the fuel increase has added about 6p to each item I sell, the average selling price of an item is circa £15. The other 3p of the increase has been covered by improving other areas of the transport department (necessity is the mother of invention).

I am not saying its not having any effect and it will effect different business models in different ways and to different degrees. However take your road sweeper fella, its a level playing field everyone has the same issues (as do all the suppliers in my industry) so just tell him to be brave and cover his cost increase with a price increase, often a letter explaining the situation with the basic maths of what has happened and a copy of the Department of Transport directive will help. The building industry may not like it but they have been subject to many legislative driven cost ups (more than most industries).

Just my two bob, but like I said I am probably missing somthing.
 

TomTanderson

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Tell all that to my friend who runs road sweepers; who has just had his fuel bill doubled; and who is now wrestling with the challenge of passing on the increased costs to a depressed condtruction industry.

He runs his own business. Has been doing it for years. And only found out about the rule change 6 weeks ago. Like I say, stealth ..... :mad:
Yes thats really going to rake it in at the treasury.......alll those road sweepers out there clogging up our roads. Can't hardly move for road sweepers...........sorry, but to label this a "stealth tax" beggers credulity.
 

Dieselman

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As Barryj says it's to provide parity across all users and across the EU.
 

Satch

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Yes thats really going to rake it in at the treasury.......alll those road sweepers out there clogging up our roads. Can't hardly move for road sweepers...........sorry, but to label this a "stealth tax" beggers credulity.

What beggar credulity is that you post on something you clearly know nothing about.

This all kicked off with a "Consultation" in late 2004 following a number of decisions that went against the Government about what constituted "used exclusively off-road or used public roads only incidentally." and what fitted and what did not fit into the very often bonkers HMRC interpretations.

"We believe that in some cases the current excepted vehicle categories and definitions are no longer adequate for their purpose. This has resulted in entitlement to use rebated gas oil being broadened beyond the extent intended, and has led to grey areas of interpretation that cause confusion for users, and which waste the time of enforcement agencies attempting to
tackle the revenue loss arising from the misuse of rebated gas oil on public roads.""


This roughly translated as "we have now lost so many times pressing stupid cases on Red Diesel enforcement that once again the goalposts will be moved and a lot of you who were formerly, and quite legally, using Red Diesel will now pay full whack. So there."

The National Farmers Union and others got stuck in bigtime because what was proposed was simply insane and would have driven many struggling Agricultural and associated businesses over the edge because the machinery and vehicles they use are usually very heavy on fuel. There is and remains a convincing case for the lower rate of duty.

But it took until January 2008 for the NFU to beat stupid HMRC points down and get to an "agreed" position, but it is one which a great many people are still very unhappy about indeed, because the current estimate of the extra duty raised is £300m.

You will get opportunists who run their road vehicles off Red Diesel but they are not going to be stopped by any of this: the basic law and penalties remain much the same. The effect on illegal use is marginal.

All this ends up doing is taking that extra £300m from the pockets of law abiding individuals and businesses who are already operating on very thin margins in the Agricultural sector and elsewhere.

http://www.nfuonline.com/documents/Policy Services/Regulation/Transport/MoA FINAL JANUARY 2008.doc
 

TomTanderson

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What beggar credulity is that you post on something you clearly know nothing about.
I said that it beggared credulity to claim that a change to the taxation of fuel for road sweepers was a stealth tax. I'm still unclear how your reply addresses road sweepers (although it was quite interesting otherwise) so I feel the personal attack was rather unwarranted. I'm sure I'll get over it though ;)
 

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