Reducing speed ratings?

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As mentioned in post #2 many marques have a hard speed limiter option when running H rated winters. That said most tyre manufacturers also offer high speed rated winters.

All this discussion, a simple phone call is all that's needed
 
You would need to determine whether the lower tyre rating would be considered a material fact. If the rating is still above the official limit of the car I do not and cannot see how it possibly can be, loop holes don't enter the equation.

As for ratings that are lower than the top speed, I could see this being a 'loop hole' for insurers to exploit, albeit not a very good one. It is worth noting that I cannot find a single report where an insurer has even hinted at a refusal to pay due to lower speed ratings. I am also intrigued how, in amongst the many threads on various forums on this matter, not a single expert has contributed (and there are many). This, rightly or wrongly, leads me to think that they do not have grounds to refuse a payout but are unwilling to speak out as they would be concerned about the potential to misrepresent other companies.

The vast majority of people simply fit tyres that have the correct speed rating for their vehicle.

Of those few that don't, most will not be involved in making a claim, though some will.

Of those few who did not fit tyres with the correct speed rating and do have a claim, some will have a significant enough claim for the insurer to thoroughly inspect their vehicle.

My point is that the number of actual cases is likely to be very small, possibly zero.... and you are unlikely to find much evidence of it online (unless it happens to be a high-profile case). But I wouldn't read into lack of evidence as proof that insurers will not pick on tyre speed rating if the opportunity presents itself.

Seems to me from this thread you have already decided to fit tyres with a lower speed rating and not to inform your insurance company . Suggest you just go ahead and then spend tomorrow more productively

^^^^^^^^
This
 
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SO------Driving a car on a tyre that's not rated to the top performance of the car as "fitted at the factory" might cause an accident ? ------well what about these abominable " space saver" = [baked bean can and a rubber band] spare wheel tyre combinations applying the same hair splitting logic --- is your insurance null and void if you have an accident while using one of them?
 
SO------Driving a car on a tyre that's not rated to the top performance of the car as "fitted at the factory" might cause an accident ? ------well what about these abominable " space saver" = [baked bean can and a rubber band] spare wheel tyre combinations applying the same hair splitting logic --- is your insurance null and void if you have an accident while using one of them?

I think the main issue is with 'undeclared modification'. The space saver is part of the car's original spec and if used as intended by the manufacturer then it's clearly not a 'modification'. The insurer could (in theory) have a claim aginast the manufacturer for making and selling unsafe cars... but not against the policy holder, as he did not modify the car in any way.
 
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'You would need to determine', yes... I am not suggesting that you are wrong, just that it's not clear-cut and could be the subject of a lengthy arbitration process in the event that the insurer disagrees with your view.



You seem to be relying on the insurer's good nature.... good luck with that.



If your tyres' speed rating is lower than the car's maximum speed, then your car is not roadworthy under UK law. This one isn't a 'loophole for the insurer to exploit'... it's a proper field day for them.



The vast majority of people simply fit the tyres that are correct for their vehicle.

Of those few that don't, some will be involved in making a claim.

Of of those few who did not fit the correct tyres and have a claim, some will have a significant enough claim for the insurer to thoroughly inspect their vehicle.

My point is that the number of actual cases is likely to be very small, possibly zero.... and you are unlikely to find much evidence of it online (unless it happens to be a high-profile case). But I wouldn't read into lack of evidence as proof that insurers will not pick on tyre speed rating if the opportunity presents itself.



^^^^^^^^
This

^^^^^^^^ this has moved on from being about me and my choice. This has evolved into an interesting discussion about peoples perception on what you need to tell the insurance company and what you don't.

With nothing appearing clear cut do you declare your non oem mats, wiper blades etc as these could arguably be material facts needing to be disclosed? There is a line to be drawn somewhere and I would act in all honesty in believing that a lower speed rating that is above the capabilities of the car does not need declaring.

Regarding going lower than the cars capable speed, I did read that this was permitted under EEC law so long as the limit was not lower than the national speed limit. I cant find but I remember there were caveats, e.g. using stickers (not sure how that would help).
However, this link would suggest otherwise http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/25/schedule/3/made
7. The speed capability of all tyres fitted shall be not less than the maximum design speed of the vehicle
 
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^^^^^^^^ this has moved on from being about me and my choice. This has evolved into an interesting discussion about peoples perception on what you need to tell the insurance company and what you don't.

With nothing appearing clear cut do you declare your non oem mats, wiper blades etc as these could arguably be material facts needing to be disclosed?...

I declared the following:

COMAND retrofit
Sound system upgrade
Heated front seats retrofit
Puddle lights retrofit
Remote boot open switch retrofit
Reversing camera retrofit
STAR mods to change ECO and transmission defaults

One phone call.... they did ask lots of questions though, mostly they wanted to know the reasons for each modification.

Items added as a note on the policy and no increase to the premium :thumb:

But then I have been in IT for the past 35 years.... so I'm risk-averse :D
 
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I have just looked up my docs and it says this

Notify if:
"• The car is changed from the manufacturer’s original specification such as modifications made to the car which alter its value, performance or appearance."

What do you read into that? The word 'such' is very loose.
 
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I declared the following:

COMAND retrofit
Sound system upgrade
Heated front seats retrofit
Puddle lights retrofit
Remote boot open switch retrofit
Reversing camera retrofit
STAR mods to change ECO and transmission defaults

One phone call.... they did ask lots of questions though, mostly they wanted to know the reasons for each modification.

Items added as a note on the policy and no increase to the premium :thumb:

But then I have been in IT for the past 35 years.... so I'm risk-averse :D

There must be a lot of unsuspecting people who buy used cars with mods such as these with no idea that they needed to declare them. In fact my last car had the sound system upgraded completely unbeknown to me. It was only after I sold it that I found out that it was not standard.
 
Amazing that I have just been out and checked the tyres on the ML we acquired last week! 4 nearly new tyres on it , all looked the same , same tread pattern BUT on closer inspection 2 are Continental and 2 Bridgestone. On further examination Continentals are w rated and Bridgestone are v rated, however they are on different axles. Have just spoken to my insurer, Admiral, who said we needed to declare the V rated tyres as modifications otherwise we could potentially run into problems if we had an accident claim. The policy has now been amended to show the variation of the 2 new tyres so any potential problem averted. The dealer said if he needed to put 2 new W rated on to make it insurable he would rather give me my money and old car back as he has already agreed to replace the glow plug controller and fix the non working Parktronic. We like the ML so are happy that everything now legal
 
In what way should an insurer even suggest that there would be a problem with fitting Vs instead of Ws to someone who would have been innocently ignorant of this fact. Ive just asked 3 of our office staff whether they knew what tyre speed ratings were. I got 2 blank faces and 1 just repeated what I said before saying, "I haven't a clue". The whole situation is just daft.
 
SO------Driving a car on a tyre that's not rated to the top performance of the car as "fitted at the factory" might cause an accident ? ------well what about these abominable " space saver" = [baked bean can and a rubber band] spare wheel tyre combinations applying the same hair splitting logic --- is your insurance null and void if you have an accident while using one of them?

Those space saver spare wheels come with very prominent max speed labelling, usually 50mph.
So, yes your insurance could be null and void if it where proven you were exceeding the manufacturer's stipulated max speed at the time of the accident.
 
I don't think it comes down to the prominence of a warning sticker. You cant have one rule for one tyre and one for another based on how clear a sticker is. Lower speed ratings have their own markings. How clear this is to someone is subjective.
 
It's pretty obvious ..

$_35.JPG


Ignorance of the law is no defence in the eyes of the court...
 
Am not worried about if I or they are in the right. At least now I know that not only do I have a car that is legal in the eyes of the law, but just as importantly the insurance company are aware of the different tyre specs fitted and have accepted liability and my policy notes have a summary of what is fitted and the company have emailed their acceptance. Job done. Mind you when the ' v ' speed rated tyres need changing I will buy w rated
 
There must be a lot of unsuspecting people who buy used cars with mods such as these with no idea that they needed to declare them. In fact my last car had the sound system upgraded completely unbeknown to me. It was only after I sold it that I found out that it was not standard.

Legislation has been amended in 2013 and again in 2015 to stop insurers from invalidating policies due to non-declared modifications that the owner could not have reasonably known about.

So more specifically, motorist could deliberately buy cheaper new tyres and if it came to it claim ignorance and say they were unaware that the new tyres had lower speed rating than the car's original tyre spec.

Under current legislation this will probably work, but then they will be committing fraud for no benefit to themselves other than saving the cost of a phone call.... which makes no sense.
 
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...Have just spoken to my insurer, Admiral, who said we needed to declare the V rated tyres as modifications otherwise we could potentially run into problems if we had an accident claim. The policy has now been amended to show the variation of the 2 new tyres so any potential problem averted...

^^^^^^^^
This....


....is the right thing to do, no matter how much we spin and discuss it.
 
^^^^^^^^
This....


....is the right thing to do, no matter how much we spin and discuss it.

I wouldn't say its the 'right' thing to do but unfortunately I concede that we live in a world where we need to cover ourselves as much as possible. If that's a phone call then so be it. My principles can come second to piece of mind where insurance companies are concerned.
 
I took a company car for new tyres and the fitters picked some tyres and phones the lease company for authorisation.

I noticed they were lower speed rating so objected. Lease company said they'd be fine and if I didn't like it I could buy my own tyres.

I thought I'll soon stop this and called our insurer. They laughed and said "you can't go over 70MPH anyway"!


I've seen lots of discussions about this and speed rating is never regarded as an issue. However, as I think has been mentioned earlier, load rating is considered important.
 
The problem is that most of these tyres either maintain their v speed rating (standard) but go to a 94 XL side wall stiffness...(130mph).

I put Michelin Cross-Climates on daughter's Golf and they're only available as XL. I did have some concern they might be stiff but it drives and rides well and noise level is absolutely fine. To be fair it had Bridgestones on before and they're noted for being stiff but her car is more comfortable to ride in than my C Class!

I do have a bit of niggle about XL tyre pressures - XL only carries extra load at high pressure. At normal pressures the load capacity is slightly reduced compared to a non-XL tyre, so the pressures should be upped a little.

Absolutely no-one seems to realise or understand this. However the difference is probably within the error range of most tyre pressure gauges so it's not a big deal
 
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