Removal of Servicing ties and affect on Mobilo

[mash]

Sorry, another thread about the removal of servicing ties and the affect on warranties. As I understand it the OFT have stated that manufacturers have to honour warranties so long as the car is serviced as per manufacturers guidelines...etc.

However it appears from other threads that should I have my car serviced by an independent, my paint warranty and Mobilo will not be preserved, in other words the cars mechanical warranty would be safe, but not the paint or Mobilo cover ?

Cheers

 

[DITTRICH]

...servicing ties
Whichever garage or body shop does the work, they must be an "authorised" servicing / repair agent? ie they have met certain standards as set by MB.
Your car must be seen by the above outfits in order to preserve paint/rust/any other warrantee relating to the car.
...mobilo
This is a complete "service" package which pays for certain things when you break down. For this package to work, your vehicle must have been serviced by an MB dealer (AFAIK) within the last 2 years. I broke down and they asked me this question on the phone before sending out the recovery truck.
...people seem to lump "warrantees" about rust and paint together with "mobilo life" when I think they're really separate things.
Rgds
Les

 

[mash]

Thanks Les.

You’d think this OFT ruling would make life simpler, but the more you go into these things the more complicated it seems to be to me....

My understanding is that the servicing ties have been removed and the manufacturer has to honour the warranty as per point 3 of the thread detailed below:

3. You can take you car to *ANY* garage (even a no-name independent non-franchise) to get your vehicle serviced provided the work done conforms to MBUK service criteria. Your warranty is not affected.

OFT ruling on removal of servicing ties

So, on the face of it OFT state quite clearly that the warranty has to be honoured even if independents are used, noting the caveats around standards of parts etc.

However, I can't believe this applies to paint repairs done by non MB garages as well, or perhaps I’m being too suspicious.

Regards Mobilo, I could see this falling outside the scope of the OFT warranty ruling and therefore MB can legitimately insist you have the car serviced by MB else it is invalidated. As you say this is a service package arrangement, so MB can dictate the requirements to use MB.

So if my understanding is correct, if I take my car to an independent garage:

I would still have a warranty (mechanical only ?), but possibly invalidate my paint work warranty and more than certainly invalidate my Mobilo service package.

So much for benefiting the consumer!!

 

[Will]

Without having first hand experience with Mobilo (I've never needed too) as I understand it, it is in addition to your 'Statutory' rights?

Ie, if you want to comply to the most minimal standard for your warranty, you will get just that. If you want the benefits of the Mobilo service (breakdown cover and 30-year paintwork cover), then it is complimentary with the Mercedes service that you pay for.

As I said, I've no first hand experience with Mobilo, so consider a forum search as this has been discussed on here at great lengths!

Will

 

[GlenH]

I took my car (202 CDI 220, W reg) in today for a rust inspection to my local dealer – all 4 wheel arches were showing signs of rust bubbling through, as soon as I met the chap doing the inspection I admitted that I hadn’t got a FMBSH but he didn’t seem overly concerned – he went around the whole car and took several pictures and also took pictures of my service book which he commented that I had at least kept up a regular service history through a Merc Independent garage I use.
He filled in a report which I duly signed and then I asked him what he reckoned my chances were – he seemed very optimistic in that I’d get a result and reckoned I’d get an answer within three weeks – he did say that in the past it had taken up to 3 months to sometimes get an answer but recently this had improved quite dramatically – I must admit I left the dealership feeling pretty upbeat in that I will get this all sorted – I’ll let you know the result when I get it.
So, even if you haven’t got a FMBSH go for it and get an inspection done – you’ve nothing to lose

 

[glojo]

We are continually having this debate, but to me the full terms and conditions are laid down in the service booklet. If you don't agree with them, fine. But no one here would dream of going to the RAC, or AA and asking for free membership?

MobilioLife gives allegedly bodywork protection for rust coming from the inside, out. It also gives breakdown coverage both here and in Europe something which some folks think should be free. No other car manufacturer offers this? (We are talking 30 year coverage)

Mercedes-Benz are simply stating the vehicle must be serviced by an authorised agent\dealer. Show me a back street or independant garage that is fully conversant with all the modern electronics of a 21st century Mercedes-Benz and I will be very impressed.

John

 

[SimonsMerc]

Mercedes-Benz are simply stating the vehicle must be serviced by an authorised agent\dealer. Show me a back street or independant garage that is fully conversant with all the modern electronics of a 21st century Mercedes-Benz and I will be very impressed.

What the hell do modern electronics have to do with shoddy panels and rusty bodywork?

-simon

 

[jgevers]

Show me a back street or independant garage that is fully conversant with all the modern electronics of a 21st century Mercedes-Benz and I will be very impressed.

John

Ouch! That hurt.
I must say that there are now quite a few 'back-street' garages that are better equipped and with better trained staff than a franchised dealer will ever have.

My own 'back street' garage, (trading standards approved, Bosch Service Agent/Bosch Car Service) supports 9 manufacturers fully with the correct computer and mechanical equipment. My staff (and myself) are properly educated and are on ongoing training programs. In fact, with the modern CAN, VAN, LIN etc. BUS we go a lot further than franchised dealers. We do not just rely on the serial computer (in MB case STAR) but also download directly in parallel from the data BUS with industrial software packages, in order to analyse the data as it travels on the BUS (not the of the people carrier type ).

This way we can correctly diagnose the fault rather then using the manufacturer's 'guided diagnostics' that seems to be designed to keep the technician dumb and the customer out of pocket.

In fact, it is no surprise that we have to back-engineer the data BUS protocols. The manufacturers will not give these out to anyone, not even their dealers.

So 'back street' garage does not automatically mean 'backwards'. Some actually have an interest in customer's cars rather than just money. The reason why we don't operate from a gin palace is because we spend the money where it matters. On correct tooling and staff training.

rant over

regards,

Job

 

[aka$h]

Ive recently had my S class service at a MB garage in France, how does this effect my mobilio cover? Is it void?

 

[SimonsMerc]

From http://www.mercsonly.co.uk/homepage.html -

New cars under warranty serviced without affecting manufacturers warranty, following a recent directive by Office Of Fair Trading, which Mercedes-Benz has compiled with

-simon

 

[glojo]

Ouch! That hurt.
I must say that there are now quite a few 'back-street' garages that are better equipped and with better trained staff than a franchised dealer will ever have.
regards,

Job

Good morning Job,
'Back street' garages does indeed have horrible connotations and I apologise if I have offended, perhaps I should have said garages not located on 'prime locations'. Even that might not be right.

I recognize the fact that you have wonderful equipment that can do most things.

Hand on heart and no flannel can your employee's tell me when my active headlights actually become active?

Easy Entrance\Exit features can be set to different base settings, what are they?

SBC braking

The list would clearly be endless and for your excellent establishment to keep up with all the modern features of ALL manufacturers is clearly impossible. Mercedes-Benz dealers can only afford to send a limited number of their employee's away on specialist courses. I am certainly NOT against 'private' workshops, they do an excellent, excellent job. Indeed some dealerships may well call in these experts. Air conditioning and fuel injection springs to mind.

What the hell do modern electronics have to do with shoddy panels and rusty bodywork?

Good morning to you as well Simon,
This question highlights the problem. The short answer is nothing!

The real answer though is everything!!

If you do not get your vehicle serviced at an authorised 'agent' then you do not need to concern yourself with the conditions of Mobilio or MobilioLife.

Please read your service booklet. It clearly outlines the terms and conditions of your 'warranty' which 'might' cover shoddy panels? and rusty bodywork.

Shoddy panels????
If these are a poor fit do not accept the car, if the steel is of a poor quality and it rusts from the inside out then it might be covered.

These remarks are certainly NOT meant to be cheeky, I am merely pointing out that you are obliged to get your car serviced by an authorised agent to benefit from ALL the perks of the warranty. You cannot cherry pick and decide what parts you want.

Mr E has very kindly printed out the OFT wording and he is far, far cleverer than myself.

Regards,
John

 

[SimonsMerc]

If you do not get your vehicle serviced at an authorised 'agent' then you do not need to concern yourself with the conditions of Mobilio or MobilioLife.

Please read your service booklet. It clearly outlines the terms and conditions of your 'warranty' which 'might' cover shoddy panels? and rusty bodywork.

Shoddy panels????
If these are a poor fit do not accept the car, if the steel is of a poor quality and it rusts from the inside out then it might be covered.

The terms in the warranty book are indeed clear: "provided that from the start of the fifth year of registration, regular servicing has been carried out by the Mercedes-Benz organisation". They are also illegal, as discussed elsewhere on this forum. However I'm also totally ignoring the discussion on "warranty terms" in this context, as it has been talked to death in other topics and doesn't need resurrecting. You and I disagree on this, and I think we're going to agree to disagree for the sake of our mutual sanity ;-)

My point was nothing to do with the terms of the warranty. The point was a simple pragmatic one. The panels are "shoddy" in that they have been made incorrectly. They should not be rusting through, from the inside, and yet they are. They are meant to be protected from rust - they are not. Whether or not the car is mechanically looked after correctly or not has no bearing on the state of the panels. They should not rust through.

A comparison would be if you purchased a house with an NHBC guarantee, then five years later the roof fell off because it had been made from sub-standard joists, and they refused to honour the guarantee because you hadn't maintained the central heating with their official central heating team. Ludicrous right? The inner workings have nothing to do with the main structure. In the same way, what the hell do modern electronics have to do with shoddy panels and rusty bodywork?

-simon

 

[jgevers]

Good morning Job,
'Back street' garages does indeed have horrible connotations and I apologise if I have offended, perhaps I should have said garages not located on 'prime locations'. Even that might not be right.

I recognize the fact that you have wonderful equipment that can do most things.

Hand on heart and no flannel can your employee's tell me when my active headlights actually become active?

Easy Entrance\Exit features can be set to different base settings, what are they?

SBC braking

The list would clearly be endless and for your excellent establishment to keep up with all the modern features of ALL manufacturers is clearly impossible. Mercedes-Benz dealers can only afford to send a limited number of their employee's away on specialist courses. I am certainly NOT against 'private' workshops, they do an excellent, excellent job. Indeed some dealerships may well call in these experts. Air conditioning and fuel injection springs to mind.


John

Active headlights, 1 employee will be able to tell you.

Entrance systems, 3 employees as well as myself will be able to tell you after plugging in.

SBC, all mechanics have been trained in servicing SBC and equivalent systems (even the knowledge that you can service these systems without putting the brakes to sleep. Not that we do that in my garage though).

You are absolutely right that we do not memorise all the features of the comfort systems. If a customers alerts us (or a diagnostic check at time of service) that something is not operating as it should we can diagnose and repair because we do know how the systems work. I suppose you could compare this to a software engineer. He might not know all the features and benefits for the user of a system, but he is able to repair the system if something goes wrong.

You didn't offend me. I am used to people thinking (logically) that the manufacturer's agents would be the best people to look after a vehicle. Unfortunately, because of the lack of professional marketing strategies of the independent garages, people are not aware that some independents are actually better equipped, more knowledgable and better trained then franchised dealers. Because the independents do not have shiny palaces (and normally don't sell cars either) it is difficult to determine who are real tradesmen and who are not.

I suppose to a certain extent, if a garage is approved by Bosch and has the relevant signs and qualifications on the wall, there will be a good chance that they will be able to provide you with a service at least as good as a franchised dealer. Probably a lot cheaper.



Maybe it is time that independents market themselves properly. But the good s rather spend the money on proper tools than marketing..........

regards,

Job

 

[glojo]

Active headlights, 1 employee will be able to tell you.

Job

Hi Job,
What's the answer (I am in a cheeky mood)

When do they become active, and how can you tell if they are actually operating.

This is not a poking out of the tongue question. I am asking because it took so long to get the correct answer from Mercedes-Benz.

Hence if your employee know's then that is indeed a plus point.

Resetting of the Easy Exit\Entrance setting needs the authorisation of the customer (obviously) but it also has to be in writing.

I am impressed that your garage can sort out problems with SBC 'Stop' well done indeed.

John

Edit:
With establishments like your own it will always be worth considering getting the basic service work carried out by a dealer and the extended work caaried out by your excellent staff.

Is it possible for any 'Independant' to get approval from the manufacturer?

Down here our old dealership contracted out body repairs to an authorised agent, but I have never heard of them publically admitting to contracting out mechanical\electrical repairs. I am sure they got air conditioning companies to carry out their specialized work though.

It is a pity that there are no Bosche workshops locally as they sound very professional.

Thanks very much indeed for explaining everything.

 

[jgevers]

Hi Job,
What's the answer (I am in a cheeky mood)

When do they become active, and how can you tell if they are actually operating.

This is not a poking out of the tongue question. I am asking because it took so long to get the correct answer from Mercedes-Benz.

Hence if your employee know's then that is indeed a plus point.

Resetting of the Easy Exit\Entrance setting needs the authorisation of the customer (obviously) but it also has to be in writing.

I am impressed that your garage can sort out problems with SBC 'Stop' well done indeed.

John

Hi John,

Personally I do not know without looking it up. I am away from the garage this week ( I do have another business as well), but I will respond early next week.

And yes, we can be approved by a manufacturer. But they make you jump through hoops (just like they do with the franchised dealer) and make us spend thousands on the things that we do not find important. For instance, they wanted us to change the colour of the tiles in the workshop, change the invoice and jobcard software, change the colour of the customer waiting area seats as well as a direct hand in our bank account! I prefer to be my own boss.

But you have hit the nail on the head. The manufacturers make it very difficult for us to obtain the correct technical information. Luckily, we have a little UK wide group of about 50 garages and we use a private forum board to keep each other up to date. This is in addition to the ongoing training from Bosch and other component manufacturers.

regards,

Job

 

[Mr E]

I've just read the Ts&Cs for MobiloLife in the service book for my 04 W211....

In essence, MB offer a 2 year warrenty (MobiloLife is valid for the new vehicle for an intitial period of 2 years.......) - no requirement to use an MB Service Centre, etc.

AFTER 2 years, the warrenty is renewed after a visit to a service centre.

So there is no discrepancy with the OFT / EU rulings - MB do not tie you in to the dealer network for the inititial warrenty as this would be illegal.

What they are entitled to so is offer you an extended warrenty - and here they can apply whatever rules and restrictions that they like (whether you like it or not). What they offer is warrenty, limited breakdown service and perforation warrenty IF YOU DECIDE to abide by the rules and have your vehicle serviced at an MB Centre.

Now - rust. You could decide to take action regarding rust (as seen in various cars on this forum) under "fit for purpose" legislation, but this would be expensive and difficult. We don't have "lemon" laws like the US. MB have decided to acknowledge the problem through MobiloLife. There then seems to be some issues around MB not paying up full cost when the terms have not be fully complied with.

They could take two stances - "bugger off, read the Terms and Conditions of your warrenty" (bad, in my opinion, but legitimate) or offer some form of contribution to repairs. I've only read the trail of the E55 on here, and (please correct me if I'm wrong) the history of the vehicle does not comply with the Ts&Cs of MobiloLife. Therefore they have offered a contribution to the cost of repairs.

Now this isn't an argument as to whether the vehicle should be in this condition or not - what it is is an outline of my understanding of MobiloLife and how it relates to 3+ year servicing.

As a consultant in the automotive world, I can understand both sides of the argument. However, one reason I chose Benz as my car was MobiloLife - I could buy an extended warrenty (not 30 years, mind) at a fair cost, or get my car serviced at a Service Centre and get it for free. I guess I've been lucky with my dealer and ownership experience - I've dealt with 3 and any real issues have been dealt with quickly and efficiently. I accept that I decided to drive a premium product and that usually attracts a premium price for aftercare (my Dad worked for BMW for many years and their story is not that pretty either). Example - I wear a Baume et Mercier watch and therefore expect to pay nearly £100 for a strap and £200 for a service. I knew what I was getting into and decided to do it.

Most problems are to do with levels of expectation - namely the mismatch between what the manufacturer expects you to do, and what you think you need to do. Whether that's cost, service, warrenty, or what happens when you have a rusty car.

Sorry if this comes across slightly negatively - but who of you would give a free, unconditional, 30 year warrenty on your goods or services?

 

[glojo]

The terms in the warranty book are indeed clear: "provided that from the start of the fifth year of registration, regular servicing has been carried out by the Mercedes-Benz organisation". They are also illegal, as discussed elsewhere on this forum. However I'm also totally ignoring the discussion on "warranty terms" in this context, as it has been talked to death in other topics and doesn't need resurrecting. You and I disagree on this, and I think we're going to agree to disagree for the sake of our mutual sanity ;-)

Hi Simon,
I totally agree with your last point and 'nuff said

This is my third Mercedes-Benz that has been covered by Mobilio\MobilioLife and I am merely pointing out that the wording in each booklet has been different. I can only assume it is being continually reworded\updated by the Mercedes-Benz legal department who try to keep abreast of all directives\legislation..

I am pleased that we can accept each others comments in the spirit they are wrote.

Take care and have a nice week-end,
John

 

[uumode]

I've just read the Ts&Cs for MobiloLife in the service book for my 04 W211....

In essence, MB offer a 2 year warrenty (MobiloLife is valid for the new vehicle for an intitial period of 2 years.......) - no requirement to use an MB Service Centre, etc.

AFTER 2 years, the warrenty is renewed after a visit to a service centre.

What they don't say you need to pre-authorise a 'deposit' of £180 (if I remember the correct amount) on your credit card for a Mobilolife callout 'incase' the incident doesn't fall under the terms / scope of the cover if the car is over 3? years old.