Replaced Brake Fluid....

[Webbo15]

Had the brake fluid changed today as my little tester showed it to be nearly 3% water! My car was serviced by the supplying dealer for the first 2 years and the fluid was changed at the last MB service in 2009. It has been serviced since then by a local garage and so far as I can see from the extensive service history the fluid has never been changed by them so it has been insitu for 11+ years! The brakes actually felt fine and without my tester I would not have known it needed doing. Oils and filters and even spark plugs have been changed regularly but no one has thought the braking system important enough to bother to test the fluid or to change it

Done by local indie who did the usual health check at the same time. All ok with the exception of the battery that was reported as "weak". That did surprise me because I fitted a new Exide less than 2 months ago so I intend to have that checked by Halfords and if confirmed will be having words with the supplier to get a replacement. I bought it on line so not sure how it is possible to return a battery by carrier when unable to pack it in a sealed container like the ones the suppliers use. Does anyone know?

 

[markjay]

Had the brake fluid changed today as my little tester showed it to be nearly 3% water! My car was serviced by the supplying dealer for the first 2 years and the fluid was changed at the last MB service in 2009. It has been serviced since then by a local garage and so far as I can see from the extensive service history the fluid has never been changed by them so it has been insitu for 11+ years! The brakes actually felt fine and without my tester I would not have known it needed doing. Oils and filters and even spark plugs have been changed regularly but no one has thought the braking system important enough to bother to test the fluid or to change it

Done by local indie who did the usual health check at the same time. All ok with the exception of the battery that was reported as "weak". That did surprise me because I fitted a new Exide less than 2 months ago so I intend to have that checked by Halfords and if confirmed will be having words with the supplier to get a replacement. I bought it on line so not sure how it is possible to return a battery by carrier when unable to pack it in a sealed container like the ones the suppliers use. Does anyone know?

I don't know what are the specific returns arrangements in your case, but my experience with goods that are difficult to ship safety in general is that once the RMA is processed the supplier will ship to you a suitable container for you to pack the faulty goods in. This is what I would expect will happen in your case.

 

[190]

so far as I can see from the extensive service history the fluid has never been changed by them so it has been insitu for 11+ years! The brakes actually felt fine and without my tester I would not have known it needed doing. Oils and filters and even spark plugs have been changed regularly but no one has thought the braking system important enough to bother to test the fluid or to change it

The brakes would feel fine in normal use but the boiling point of the fluid would have been lowered such that heavy use when descending a very steep hill could have resulted in brake failure. Then there is internal corrosion due to the water content and corrosion inhibitors having been used up after 11 years. Some consider the 2 year interval too cautious but 11 years is certainly too long. I read on US forums that regular brake fluid changes are less common over there with some never changing the fluid.

 

[Webbo15]

I don't know what are the specific returns arrangements in your case, but my experience with goods that are difficult to ship safety in general is that once the RMA is processed the supplier will ship to you a suitable container for you to pack the faulty goods in. This is what I would expect will happen in your case.

I have been in touch with the suppliers (Tayna) and have been given specific instructions regarding packing and they will then arrange collection from home. they will test and if faulty send a replacement and if not (apparently 50% of returns just need charging) I will have to pay postage costs. It seems like a fair way of dealing with their customers to me.

 

[optimusprime]

I bet 50% of cars on the road today are just the same, with water content in the B/fluid .. I bought the same tester off ebay and after the test i found that i had water content in my b/fluid . So i purchased 5 ltr of brake fluid , and i sucked the old fluid out with a turkey baster ,, down to the minimum level in the brake fluid catch tank .Then just top it back up with nice new fluid .Repeat this every few months . Then keep testing the fluid till its zero water content in the brake fluid catch tank . I know most of you wont think its the best way to do this , but its easy for me . And now i dont have the water content in the b/fuid.

 

[markjay]

I bet 50% of cars on the road today are just the same, with water content in the B/fluid .. I bought the same tester off ebay and after the test i found that i had water content in my b/fluid . So i purchased 5 ltr of brake fluid , and i sucked the old fluid out with a turkey baster ,, down to the minimum level in the brake fluid catch tank .Then just top it back up with nice new fluid .Repeat this every few months . Then keep testing the fluid till its zero water content in the brake fluid catch tank . I know most of you wont think its the best way to do this , but its easy for me . And now i dont have the water content in the b/fuid.

In the olden days we used to fo this, but followed by bleeding the brakes until clear new fluid came through.

I think that the risk with the turkey baster method and no bleeding is that you are not actually replacing the brake fluid in the pipes and calipers.

Now some of the moisture might circulate from the calipers and pipes back up to the reservoir, in which case the overall moisture content will do down, but even so (and don't actually know if it does that), it won't solve the problem of the gunk and other cr@p that accumulates and contaminates the fluid in the calipers.

A mechanical engineer who got me into DIY car maintenance back in the seventies told me once that brakes, being a hydraulic system, in essence will work on lemon juice (he used it as a metaphors for 'any liquid'). Which is true. But the performance of the system will vary dramatically based on the type and condition of the hydraulic fluid that is being used.

 

[190]

I know most of you wont think its the best way to do this , but its easy for me . And now i dont have the water content in the b/fuid

I don't do it that way but I do see how it works as any moisture in the fluid migrates throughout the system and it doesn't need the fluid to flow for that to happen.

If you want to try an easy bleeding method, try gravity bleeding. Just attach a short length of tube and open the nipple. The fluid will flow very slowly particularly on the rear calipers but it's fool proof with zero chance of introducing air as long as the reservoir is kept topped up. It's important to use the correct low viscosity fluid type.

 

[oilmansi]

I bet 50% of cars on the road today are just the same, with water content in the B/fluid .. I bought the same tester off ebay and after the test i found that i had water content in my b/fluid . So i purchased 5 ltr of brake fluid , and i sucked the old fluid out with a turkey baster ,, down to the minimum level in the brake fluid catch tank .Then just top it back up with nice new fluid .Repeat this every few months . Then keep testing the fluid till its zero water content in the brake fluid catch tank . I know most of you wont think its the best way to do this , but its easy for me . And now i dont have the water content in the b/fuid.

More than 50% I would say. Brake fluid is the most over looked fluid to be changed of them all. And being hygroscopic it will start to absorb water as soon as the bottle is opened, albeit slowly!

The water absorbed into the brake system will tend to collect at the lowest part of the system, often the calipers and this is where corrosion can often occur.

Cheers,

Guy

 

[Petrol Pete]

I have been in touch with the suppliers (Tayna) and have been given specific instructions regarding packing and they will then arrange collection from home. they will test and if faulty send a replacement and if not (apparently 50% of returns just need charging) I will have to pay postage costs. It seems like a fair way of dealing with their customers to me.

Have you looked into the postage costs for a heavy battery ? Just curious. I have had a number of batteries from Tayna over the years, but thankfully I have never had to post one back to them.

 

[geoffus]

More than 50% I would say. Brake fluid is the most over looked fluid to be changed of them all. And being hygroscopic it will start to absorb water as soon as the bottle is opened, albeit slowly!

The water absorbed into the brake system will tend to collect at the lowest part of the system, often the calipers and this is where corrosion can often occur.

Cheers,

Guy

I agree that fluid should be changed, but every 2 years may seem excessive, how does water get into a relatively sealed brake system anyway ?
Has anyone experienced internal corrosion of a braking system ?

 

[markjay]

I agree that fluid should be changed, but every 2 years may seem excessive, how does water get into a relatively sealed brake system anyway ?
Has anyone experienced internal corrosion of a braking system ?

2 years is indeed arbitrary. Over the years I have owned various marques, and it seems that different manufacturers have different ideas - most say every 2 years, some samy every 3 years, I think one even said every 4 years. I don't think there's any hard rule about it.

The thing is that it's actually quite cheap to do.... 1L of DOT4 or DOT4 Plus fluid (even MB-branded) is only about a tenner so won't cost too much if doing it DIY, a garage will probably charge around £40, a specialist a bit more, and even an MB dealer won't charge much over £100. So for something that needs doing every 2 years (or 3 years, if not going by the book) this isn't a huge cost. So my advice is to just get it done......

 

[Webbo15]

Have you looked into the postage costs for a heavy battery ? Just curious. I have had a number of batteries from Tayna over the years, but thankfully I have never had to post one back to them.

Not specifically but Tayna charge £7.95 for delivery if you order directly from their website instead of with ebay when they give the price inclusive of delivery so that is what I would expect.

 

[Webbo15]

The thing is that it's actually quite cheap to do.... 1L of DOT4 or DOT4 Plus fluid (even MB-branded) is only about a tenner so won't cost too much if doing it DIY, a garage will probably charge around £40, a specialist a bit more, and even an MB dealer won't charge much over £100. So for something that needs doing every 2 years (or 3 years, if not going by the book) this isn't a huge cost. So my advice is to just get it done......

I agree completely - for something so critical as the braking system its a small price to pay and your suggested costs are spot on - I paid £60 with an Indy but could have paid £40 at National Tyres and Formula 1 but chose to pay the extra for peace of mind that it would be done properly.

 

[190]

Has anyone experienced internal corrosion of a braking system ?

I doubt you need to worry about internal corrosion of the brake pipes, they rust much faster from the outside.

If there is one aspect of the brake system more overlooked than fluid change it's the brake calipers themselves which can be affected by corrosion with the result that the caliper piston gets stiff and doesn't pull the pads back off the disc causing brake drag. The caliper pistons rely on the hysteresis in the rubber seal to pull back and that isn't a force that will overcome a corroded or stiff piston. For me an essential part of bleeding the brakes is to exercise the pistons to get them moving more easily and if necessary pull back the dust seals and use red rubber grease to lubricate them. If you pay to have the fluid changed I very much doubt that they would do this. Faced with a stiff caliper piston an MB garage is more likely to say you need new ones.

To explain what's happening in the pictures, when the brake is applied the the caliper piston doesn't slide through the seal, it simply distorts it so that when the brake pressure is released the seal pulls the piston back again. The piston will slide through the seal in time but only to compensate for pad wear.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Not specifically but Tayna charge £7.95 for delivery if you order directly from their website instead of with ebay when they give the price inclusive of delivery so that is what I would expect.

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I am not 100% sure but I think you might have to use a specialised courier.

 

[Bellow]

If, you crack the bleed nipple open when replacing pads (before pushing piston in) and (because the hydraulic circuit was opened) bleed when finished, the most vulnerable fluid (ie, at wheels) is removed every pad change.

Alternatively, don't do the above, push the contaminated fluid back into the system then at some time later do a complete fluid change and imagine you are doing the best for the system.

 

[flowrider]

I agree completely - for something so critical as the braking system its a small price to pay and your suggested costs are spot on - I paid £60 with an Indy but could have paid £40 at National Tyres and Formula 1 but chose to pay the extra for peace of mind that it would be done properly.

Thats a very good price, my local indy has quoted me £150 for a brake fluid change.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Not sure how any garage could make money doing a full BF change for £40 unless it was sold as 'loss leader' just to get you in the door to sell you some other service.

 

[Webbo15]

I am not 100% sure but I think you might have to use a specialised courier.

Not so - Tayna give very specific instructions for packing and in my case DHL are collecting it on Monday all being well

 

[Webbo15]

Thats a very good price, my local indy has quoted me £150 for a brake fluid change.

If mine had quoted that, I would have looked elsewhere. I am sure a MB dealer would do it for less than that.