Rights under 1975 consumer credit act

[RobertoMercini]

I've got to be honest and say I've learnt a lot more on perusing these forums about general useful stuff than cars however I've a little story to tell in case it rings any bells to anyone.

A few weeks ago I took the wife to buy a 2nd hand car as hers was on the way out and she needs it for uni. Car (ford Ka) looked lovely, test drive caused no concern. Bought with 'warranty' and she drove it home behind me. 45 miles later (and only 2 from home) clutch goes completely.

Early on in the week after speaking with the garage several times its apparent that the 'warranty' never went through and seller cuts all ties after my mentioning sale of goods act when he asks me for 100 to come and collect the car to fix it. Hear nothing, eventually get hold of him by using a different number. Meanwhile I have the car looked at by independent mechanic. All kinds of things wrong with it resulting in an estimate of 550 for the required work...
After hitting him with this he offers to collect, rectify all and return (all in a text message that I've kept) for a modest 200 quid. Swine. At this point I reiterate my right to a full refund and that I want one. Heard nothing and unable to contact him since. Sent recorded delivery letter with my intentions which has been returned to sender. Currently opened a dispute with credit card as I purchased in full with it (with this in mind)

So basically I have a car sat on the drive, undriveable. Hopefully the cc company accept and refund but how he then gets the vehicle is anyone's guess. Complete and utter charlatan.

I'm also considering opening small claims court to get my consequential losses back (which are higher than you'd think) - has anyone ever had any success with such attempts?

Anyway, if anyone wants the place to avoid I'm happy to out, just didn't want to make this thread a 'this garage is shyte - avoid' type thread

 

[Dieselman]

It sounds like the process and result could be an interesting read.

 

[markjay]

I think there is no doubt that the dealer needs to sort this or provide a refund.

The question is what can be done? You would probably win if you take him to court, but a small trader can dodge the courts either legally (liquidation, insolvency, etc) or illegally, (avoiding the bailiffs or telling them tall stories).

I guess Trading Standards would be a greater deterent.

With regards the credit card provider, they can certainly help getting your money back, but more importantly once they get involved the dealer might show some more interest in resolving this dispute amicably.

 

[dozypillock]

I think there is no doubt that the dealer needs to sort this or provide a refund.

The question is what can be done? You would probably win if you take him to court, but a small trader can dodge the courts either legally (liquidation, insolvency, etc) or illegally, (avoiding the bailiffs or telling them tall stories).

I guess Trading Standards would be a greater deterent.

With regards the credit card provider, they can certainly help getting your money back, but more importantly once they get involved the dealer might show some more interest in resolving this dispute amicably.

Just out of interest, what did you actually pay for the car? i.e if only £500 they probably won't even bother collecting etc How many miles? What year? What did you think it was worth? Was it a bargain? Did you test drive it? (A clutch to fail that quick sounds like it would have felt iffy on the test drive)?

Neil

 

[E55BOF]

My understanding is that the credit card company is jointly liable, with the dealer, for the full amount; if the dealer won't/can't pay, the card issuer will have to. I'd not waste any more time on the dealer; contact the card issuer, telling them the full tale of woe and what you have done to try to contact the selling dealer, and ask them to refund your money. Let us know what they say if you do so.

 

[Spinal]

This makes for a good read on section 75: Section 75 refunds: free protection over £100 - MSE

Seems like it can take 6 months or so, but usually works..

M.

 

[RobertoMercini]

The car was 1000, 02 plate, 48k. With the 3 month warranty the price was very much in the ballpark of all the others we'd seen. The clutch seemed fine to a layman such as I (had plenty of little one litres before being old enough to afford a mb!). If he knew of all the faults (he probably did) then you're probably right about it not being worth his while. I shall keep you all appraised of how it unfolds!

 

[danch]

Get him to collect & refund the car, you are within your rights to ask this or he fixes the car & returns it to you at no cost..

They are the only 2 options I would entertain

 

[zoros]

I've had this problem with a different product (double glazing - surprise surprise). Forget the dealer for the reasons mentioned above.
Concentrate on the bank. Write them a letter (disputes dept) and quote Section 75 of the TDA. Be prepared for them to reject it or put up a defence. Comply with the logical reposte but otherwise give them reasonable time to act. (it eventually took me 8 months to get ALL my money back plus 8% interest from the date of the sale backdated). The banks were so obstinate, I had to go to the ombudsman and he did not mess about!
You made a very clever decsiion there buying via CC - well done.
As for the dealer - what goes round comes round.
Do NOT touch the car! It will jeapordise your case. G.L.

Z

 

[E55BOF]

Get him to collect & refund the car, you are within your rights to ask this or he fixes the car & returns it to you at no cost..

They are the only 2 options I would entertain

That's all very well, but the dealer refuses to do either. What do you propose the OP do now to compel him to act?

The three month 'warranty' is irrelevant; your rights are against the seller under the Sale of Goods Act 1979. That requires that the goods be "as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose", which the car in question inarguably was not. Go to the credit card issuer.

The downside is that, as Zoros has pointed out, you must not use the car, so you have to buy another one, and in the meantime your money is tied up in the car just sitting there on your drive/outside your house/in the car park. Yes, it's a bummer.

Did it have a new MoT, by any chance, and if so, were any of the faults you have found MoT failure points? VOSA might well be interested if any were, and could not reasonably be claimed to have occurred in the few miles the car has covered since the MoT test.

 

[Spinal]

That's all very well, but the dealer refuses to do either. What do you propose the OP do now to compel him to act?

OP doesn't need to compel the seller, the credit card company is jointly liable for the refund, and at the OP's discretion, he can ask the company instead of the seller under section 75.

Whether the credit card company then goes to claim the refund back from the seller is another story; and not something that should impact the OPs refund.

M.

 

[RobertoMercini]

Yep, no work has been done on the car as I knew it had the potential to jeopardise my case. As has been mentioned, the seller refuses to make it allow contact so he can come and collect the vehicle when he finds out what's happened. Interestingly, if I were to get a refund under s75 I wonder what I'd have to/be able to do with the vehicle? As in I wonder who it would technically belong to? That's another avenue I shall approach and let you know about!

 

[moonloops]

Sales of goods act kicks in here - car is neither satisfactory quality or fit for purpose.

 

[MBDevotee]

Ok guys here's something else you may not know......

May buys a kitchen for £27,000.

He pays £500 deposit on credit card.

The balance of £26,500 he pays to the kitchen co by bank transfer.

2 Weeks later, kitchen not delivered and calls company to find out they have gone bust and there will be no kitchen.

How much can he get back from the C/Card Company......

a) Nothing
b) His £500 deposit
c) His £500 plus reasonable costs
d) £27,000


Answer later....

 

[moonloops]

Ok guys here's something else you may not know......

May buys a kitchen for £27,000.

He pays £500 deposit on credit card.

The balance of £26,500 he pays to the kitchen co by bank transfer.

2 Weeks later, kitchen not delivered and calls company to find out they have gone bust and there will be no kitchen.

How much can he get back from the C/Card Company......

a) Nothing
b) His £500 deposit
c) His £500 plus reasonable costs
d) £27,000


Answer later....

Easy one, you get it all back as the credit card company is jointly liable with the kitchen company for delivering the entire product

 

[Spinal]

Ok guys here's something else you may not know......

May buys a kitchen for £27,000.

He pays £500 deposit on credit card.

The balance of £26,500 he pays to the kitchen co by bank transfer.

2 Weeks later, kitchen not delivered and calls company to find out they have gone bust and there will be no kitchen.

How much can he get back from the C/Card Company......

a) Nothing
b) His £500 deposit
c) His £500 plus reasonable costs
d) £27,000


Answer later....

The full value - as it's under £30,000 and over £100, the credit card company is liable for the full £27k value (as long as the deposit paid was over £100).

M.

 

[MBDevotee]

Both correct.

and it's key that it's a non-fulfillment.

In the case of the car, I wonder if it will be so easy as the car was delivered, just not fit for purpose.

Ultimately however I think if the OP is persistant he should get his money back.

It might not hurt to mention to someone that the car has been rejected and you will be charging £50 per week storage? Don't know where you stand with that?

 

[Rory]

The clutch seemed fine to a layman such as I (had plenty of little one litres before being old enough to afford a mb!). If he knew of all the faults (he probably did) then you're probably right about it not being worth his while. I shall keep you all appraised of how it unfolds!

To be fair, you thought the clutch was OK and indeed it worked for 40 odd miles.

In what way did it fail? They can just go.

Obviously I don't know anything about you and your circumstances, but cars are designed to last 10 years. You bought one that was 12 years old. It's not like you owned yourself from new and cherished it - so you're going to have to massively lucky to be able to pick up a 12yr old Ka that isn't very much on its last legs.

 

[RobertoMercini]

Rory, the sale of goods act is (quoted above in another post) there to protect consumers from spending a lot of money on things that don't work / last. If cars are only meant to last ten years these days then perhaps you could explain the amount of 11 years plus cars on the road?

 

[MBDevotee]

I have in our car "****nal" a V reg 2000 Nissan Almera, which apart from one sill having had a weld on is pretty much perfect.

Paint is good and shiny, no rust and (as far as I am aware) no mechanical faults at all..

We use it as a general runabout and it's 15 years old next year.

A 10 yr old car is not old - nothing like.