Rolls Royce SMRs

[grober]

Rolls-Royce 470 MWe Design to Begin GDA in 2022

Small modular reactors

Rolls-Royce SMR LTD was established to develop an affordable power plant that generates electricity using a small modular reactor.

www.rolls-royce.com

 

[grober]

The counter arguement.

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[Chrishazle]

Considering it takes 10 years to plan a full size nuclear plant and another 10 years to build it, there are plenty of places ready for a much quicker SMR to be installed - we live near Dungeness where there is existing infrastructure and experienced workforce for this - so it should be quickly started.

 

[JHS]

The wind is unpredictable, the sun don't shine a lot here, so we need something to provide reliable energy.
Gas and oil are vulnerable to market forces and are declining sources, we have no coal industry left.
This leaves tidal and nuclear.
Tidal will not cut it so that leaves nuclear.

 

[DrNick]

I've never understood why this country is so anti tidal. It happens twice a day, regular as clockwork. Maybe its a scale thing?

 

[Dryce]

I've never understood why this country is so anti tidal. It happens twice a day, regular as clockwork. Maybe its a scale thing?

I don't think anybody is 'anti-tidal'.

It's more an issue of practicality and impact (depending on the means).

And the 'twice a day' isn't quite the same as continuous in pactical terms.

 

[grober]

UK government announces biggest investment into Britain’s tidal power
maybe the tide is turning?

 

[JHS]

UK government announces biggest investment into Britain’s tidal power
maybe the tide is turning?

Published24 November 2021 which was before Putin kicked off and tree hugging and greenification suddenly took a back seat. These lovely sounding energy sources will at best only top up energy needs.

 

[Chrishazle]

One never mentioned problem with "renewables" (wind, solar and tidal) is that realistically you either need gas or nuclear that can be turned on and off whenever required (no wind, no sun, turn of the tide, more demand than supply) or massive battery stores for when renewable production exceeds demand. Big buildings using "old" electric car batteries is a use for them when they're no longer OK for vehicle use but still useable this way, - but isn't there a fire risk with electric vehicle battery packs?? I'd far rather have a couple of SMR's at Dungeness than warehouses full of redundant vehicle batteries (and the required control systems/people) here, there and everywhere

 

[Dryce]

One never mentioned problem with "renewables" (wind, solar and tidal) is that realistically you either need gas or nuclear that can be turned on and off whenever required (no wind, no sun, turn of the tide, more demand than supply) or massive battery stores for when renewable production exceeds demand.

Pump storage hydro is a effectively a battery.

I would keep some old fossil powered stations (coal would do) sitting on standby as a strategic reserve. Modern politicians don't understand this.

In Scotland we had Longannet sitting pretty much doing nothing .... except acting as standby .... so they decomissioned it. Holyrood is naive and foolish.

 

[Chrishazle]

I've actually seen a pump hydro scheme that works - but it was in Spain. Pretty much anywhere in England south of the Lake District you'd have a problem finding a suitable site for the storage reservoir with sufficient drop to the generators to make them work! Probably plenty of places in Wales and Scotland though - but can either devolved "government" afford to build them??

 

[190]

I've actually seen a pump hydro scheme that works - but it was in Spain. Pretty much anywhere in England south of the Lake District you'd have a problem finding a suitable site for the storage reservoir with sufficient drop to the generators to make them work! Probably plenty of places in Wales and Scotland though - but can either devolved "government" afford to build them??

Scotland and Wales already have two each Cruachan and Foyers in Scotland, and Dinorwig and Ffestiniog in Wales. We haven't built one for over 30 years, the last one being Dinorwig.
Dinorwig Power Station - Wikipedia


More are stuck in planning. We really are hopeless at planning ahead.
The massive green power projects stuck in limbo

 

[st13phil]

We really are hopeless at planning ahead.

Our planning processes are biased towards a “do nothing” outcome. Add in that anything major attracts a plethora of objections meaning that an inquiry is undertaken, and that guarantees the application process spans parliamentary terms. Then different politicians with different views ask questions that take time to answer…

Unfortunately, the number of people who understand the importance of “JFDI” is very limited.

 

[JHS]

Pump storage hydro is a effectively a battery.

I would keep some old fossil powered stations (coal would do) sitting on standby as a strategic reserve. Modern politicians don't understand this.

In Scotland we had Longannet sitting pretty much doing nothing .... except acting as standby .... so they decomissioned it. Holyrood is naive and foolish.

But, where do we get the coal from?

 

[zipdip]

I've never understood why this country is so anti tidal. It happens twice a day, regular as clockwork. Maybe its a scale thing?

Well one of the main reasons tidal has never caught on is that sea water is so corrosive,the ongoing cost of repair and replace would be horendous,we have needed to build nuclear power stations for many years,but mindful of the voters hardly anything has been done,now we are all being hit in the pocket and some are feelng the cold,it seems we will be full on with these mini reactors.

 

[grober]

Some pros and cons

Profiling the top pros and cons of tidal power technology

Although tidal power is forecast to play a significant role in the world's future energy mix, the technology has various pros and cons

www.nsenergybusiness.com

 

[DrNick]

Maybe we could plug in some of our nuclear submarines. I suppose it would negate the deterrent as you’d only have to follow the extension lead….

 

[Dryce]

Maybe we could plug in some of our nuclear submarines. I suppose it would negate the deterrent as you’d only have to follow the extension lead….

The nuclear submarine reactors would be fuel limited. They're small and not designed for frequent refuelling . This means that they'll be designed for a given usage pattern - so with something like a Vanguard SSBN there will be an assumption of so many days at sea - moderate speeds getting to a patrol area and then slow speeds in that patrol area at say 100-120 days per year over 25 years. So basically operating in some high power bursts for a small % of the time and then with the wick turned down or off for the rest of the time.

So run it flat out contuously and you use up your core within a relatively short period of time.

(I think the best way of looking at these naval reactors is like a long life very high energy battery - when you design the vessel you have a plan for how the vessel will be operated and deployed and how it will likely use up that battery over its lifetime).

Whereas the later AGR2s in Heysham and Torness were designed to run day in day pout at a very high % of capacity and also to be refuelled without shutdown. Very high availability. (My recollection is that the online refuelling wasn't achieved).

I would add that the comments about tidal being reliable - it's not simple. If you build a big tidal barrage then you need a large area of water and risk an ecosystem - you capture the rise in tide every 12 hours and release from the barrage at a given level - now in principle you get the most energy by releasing over the next 6 or so hours. But then you have a gap of another 6 to refill.

Or you can use impellers - but you need the right sort of channel to place them and then you still have the issue of variable rate of flow.

 

[Wolfie1]

In scotland we produce enough renewable energy for its needs at the moment, it goes to england then we are charged an extortionate amount to have it back, so current renewables can and do work, just need more of them for everyone to have cheaper electricity, but the government couldnt have that god forbid!
i personally dont understand where all out money goes, we all pay an extortionate amount on our wages before we get them and then have to pay a lot of tax on everything we then have to buy to live!

 

[ALFAitalia]

I don't think anybody is 'anti-tidal'.

It's more an issue of practicality and impact (depending on the means).

And the 'twice a day' isn't quite the same as continuous in pactical terms.

Of course its continuous!!....the tide is always moving one way or the other and its the movement that generates the power. So unlike wind or solar its a 24 hour a day power generator.