Ronnie biggs parole refused

[Mudster]

Mudster. I am not campaigning for anyone’s release, only expressing an opinion, in the politest possible terms, to which I thought, perhaps naively, that I am entitled to do. I personally find it depressing that we have members of our society, so hell-bent on revenge and retribution, when the person in question is an elderly, infirm man, whose criminal past is well known and documented, who has served a reasonable sentence (regardless of age) and whom, and I think we can safely say, represents no threat to the general public, young or old, male or female. I don’t think RB could even catch a train, let alone stop one. There are no reasonable grounds to keep him incarcerated, other then the aforementioned retribution.

And here is where you and seeming a large contingent of the rest of the forum disagree.

I do not believe he has served a reasonable sentence, he is elderly and infirm and inside because He escaped from serving a sentence in his younger years and enjoyed those years free whilst openly sticking two fingers up at justice. So he is now paying a stiffer sentence for his crime and rightly so.

He is openly unrepentant for his crimes. I genuinely feel that his ability to be a menace to society now is irrelevant, he is now paying the penalty for escaping on top of his sentence.

You are very very wide of the mark with this man. You are actually missing the point by a long long way and choosing to ignore the fact that he chose his route in life and now he's paying for it.....

 

[wxmclk]

The sentences given by a politically motivated judge merely reflected the times of massive change, a vulnerable government (christine keeler / mandy rice davies / profumo scandel). Spies and murderers were only receiving 10 & 15 yrs and these chaps get 30yrs? Yes they were robbers and one or two escaped, but I can understand why you would want to faced with 30yrs incarceration...it was a crime of dishonesty, nothing more. So if Ronnie Biggs’s punishmet fits the crime, What are you to do with white collar crimanals posing as M.P’s, Bankers and public servants tea leafing vast amounts of other peoples money, leaving the country bankrupt and on the verge of collaps and pensioners and retired folk without a substainable income, chop off their heads and mount them on stakes outside the tower of London. I have cited this case before, but an incident local to us a 5 or so years ago, saw a young thug viciously attack his girlfried, kicking her repeatady in the head, inflicting severe brain damage, she can no longer talk, walk, speak or feed herself, and left a young baby effectivly Motherless, he was paroled after serving 4 years! Oh yes, I can realy see how an 80 year old Ronnie Biggs deserves to rot in prison for his part in such a heniuos crime.

That put's this thread very much into perspective- Thanks for this useful contribution

 

[Mudster]

Can you explain these inconsistencies in your theory?

Bruce Reynolds, the leader of the great train robbery gang got a 10 year sentence after 5 years on the run. He was released after 9 years.

Why did the leader of the gang get 1/3 the sentence of a footsoldier?

Why did another footsoldier Charlie Wilson, sentenced to 30 years as was Biggs, only serve 10 years even after escaping from prison and living abroad for 5 years.

What many people seem to be glossing over is the fact that all Ronnie Biggs probably has to do to be releasesed is be humble and repentant, but He seems to choose to be confrontational and actually glow in is infamy.

If the pr1ck said sorry and behaved in a more humble manor it's far more likely He'd be walking free today.

The bankers that are being lauded as examples in the above reply stood up and apologised on TV and to the governement, was it sincere? Who knows...but they said sorry, they squirmed and were humble for a at least a moment.

If biggs wants to breathe fee air all he probably has to do is drop the attitude.

 

[Colin_b]

What many people seem to be glossing over is the fact that all Ronnie Biggs probably has to do to be releasesed is be humble and repentant, but He seems to choose to be confrontational and actually glow in is infamy.

If the pr1ck said sorry and behaved in a more humble manor it's far more likely He'd be walking free today.

The bankers that are being lauded as examples in the above reply stood up and apologised on TV and to the governement, was it sincere? Who knows...but they said sorry, they squirmed and were humble for a at least a moment.

If biggs wants to breathe fee air all he probably has to do is drop the attitude.

Given he is mute, immobile, incontinent and has MRSA I don't suspect he's capable of expressing much.

I find his honesty in being unrepentant somewhat refreshing compared with the examples you give!

 

[230K]

sounds like sixth form philosophy to me

I didnt do philosophy in sixth form Richard

230k

 

[Mudster]

Given he is mute, immobile, incontinent and has MRSA I don't suspect he's capable of expressing much.

I find his honesty in being unrepentant somewhat refreshing compared with the examples you give!

He's had 40 odd years in which to show some remorse.

So now He's ill he should be free? He's just fine where he is.

 

[Colin_b]

He's had 40 odd years in which to show some remorse.

So now He's ill he should be free? He's just fine where he is.

Would you prefer he lied, and pretended to be remorse filled?

It sound a bit Catch 22.

 

[andy_k]

Given he is mute, immobile, incontinent and has MRSA I don't suspect he's capable of expressing much.

Not much point letting him out then is there?

Smarties, I love your enthusiasm for this crime but to refer to is as 'dishonesty' is in my opinion pushing the definition of 'dishonest' to the limit. Dishonest people tell lies, mislead you and maybe con you out of a few quid.

Dishonesty seldom involves holding up trains, pointing guns at people and hitting them with pick-axe handles

Now, if you'd like to tell me that I've misunderstood what dishonesty means I'll happily listen

They were not loveable rogues (neither were the Krays) and they didn't hand out cups of tea to old ladies and bring Christmas presents around for the poor every year. They were for the most part viscious criminals who deserved the sentences they got

 

[glojo]

Would you prefer he lied, and pretended to be remorse filled?

It sound a bit Catch 22.

Touche

Excellent point

 

[andy_k]

Would you prefer he lied, and pretended to be remorse filled?

It sound a bit Catch 22.

nope, I'm happy with him where he is

 

[Smarties]

Has Biggs ever expressed remorse for being involved in the robbery?

In December 2007, Ronnie Biggs issued an appeal, from Norwich prison, asking to be released from jail to die with his family: "I am an old man and often wonder if I truly deserve the extent of my punishment. I have accepted it and only want freedom to die with my family and not in jail. I hope Mr Straw decides to allow me to do that. I have been in jail for a long time and I want to die a free man. I am sorry for what happened.

 

[flango]

In December 2007, Ronnie Biggs issued an appeal, from Norwich prison, asking to be released from jail to die with his family: "I am an old man and often wonder if I truly deserve the extent of my punishment. I have accepted it and only want freedom to die with my family and not in jail. I hope Mr Straw decides to allow me to do that. I have been in jail for a long time and I want to die a free man. I am sorry for what happened.

Thats and apology not remorse, two totally different things!

 

[glojo]

Thats and apology not remorse, two totally different things!

Deuce

Great debate and I still say he has to serve the time.

America has far more prisoners than the UK, plus they have longer prison sentences. Last year I watched a documentary that featured a prison that was used for the terminally ill, the old, the infirm. The had their own cemetary, their own funeral director (prisoners) their own coffin makers and their own priests.

Here is an interesting read

 

[Mudster]

In December 2007, Ronnie

Biggs​

issued an appeal, from Norwich prison, asking to be released from jail to die with his family: "I am an old man and often wonder if I truly deserve the extent of my punishment. I have accepted it and only want freedom to die with my family and not in jail. I hope Mr Straw decides to allow me to do that. I have been in jail for a long time and I want to die a free man. I am sorry for what happened.

He enjoyed 10 years of his life with his family in full control of his faculties when He should have locked up.

Now he's so infirm He doesn't know what he's doing, he's locked up...sounds to me like he got a bloody good deal.

He should have served his time when appropriate, he would then not find himself in this position.

If he had any sense He would have had a chat with Earnest Saunders, the only man in medical history to recover from presenile dementia and alzheimer's directly after his early release from prison.

 

[Colin_b]

A fascinating thread, this is turning out to be, particularly the rather uneasy mix of 1960s and 21st crime and punishment. the definitions of remorse, regret and apology and comparisons with other criminals.

I suspect there isn't a right answer, but I'm not going to lose any sleep either way!

 

[verytalldave]

Reasonable in relation to this. OT I know and they had age 'on their side', but I was 10 once and didn’t find myself doing what they did:
The parole board has decided to release the two schoolboy murderers of James Bulger, according to reports.
Jon Venables and Robert Thompson, now aged 18, were just 10 years old when they abducted two-year-old James from a Liverpool shopping centre before torturing and killing him.
Venables' parole hearing took place at a secret location, followed by Thompson's appearance at a different venue.
The decision comes as a bitter blow for the victim's family.
His mother, has long opposed their release, saying they need to serve more time in custody.
Earlier she said: "I would say 15-20 years, I could learn to live with that.
"I know one day they have got to be released, but I think after eight years it's too soon for what they have done."

You quote in post #37 that we shouldnt compare the Biggs case to other cases such as murderers and the like.
And now here you are doing exactly that - something that YOU are telling US not to do.

 

[Smarties]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarties
Reasonable in relation to this. OT I know and they had age 'on their side', but I was 10 once and didn’t find myself doing what they did:
The parole board has decided to release the two schoolboy murderers of James Bulger, according to reports.
Jon Venables and Robert Thompson, now aged 18, were just 10 years old when they abducted two-year-old James from a Liverpool shopping centre before torturing and killing him.
Venables' parole hearing took place at a secret location, followed by Thompson's appearance at a different venue.
The decision comes as a bitter blow for the victim's family.
His mother, has long opposed their release, saying they need to serve more time in custody.
Earlier she said: "I would say 15-20 years, I could learn to live with that.
"I know one day they have got to be released, but I think after eight years it's too soon for what they have done."

You quote in post #37 that we shouldnt compare the Biggs case to other cases such as murderers and the like.
And now here you are doing exactly that - something that YOU are telling US not to do.

Verytalldave, I responded to a posters question:
‘Are the same people here advocating his release the same ones who miss those psycopathic murderers, sorry, those cute lovable rogues the Kray twins?’. My response was how he could compare the likes of cold-blooded murderers with Ronnie Biggs.
A further post asked how I could ascertain that 10 years was a reasonable time to serve (given the offence), my example, the 8 years served by Venables & Thompson for a truly horrific murderous act on 2 year old James Bulger, was to heighten awareness that far, far more evil, wicked and damn right dangerous individuals appear to receive more lenient sentences and subsequent parole consideration (and are now at large), than has been handed out to Ronnie Biggs, whom again, and I reiterate, is not, and has never been in my opinion a dangerous individual, dishonest yes, but not dangerous.

 

[glojo]

You quote in post #37 that we shouldnt compare the Biggs case to other cases such as murderers and the like.
And now here you are doing exactly that - something that YOU are telling US not to do.

I think Smarties was correct when it was suggested it was wrong to compare any other case with what weare discussing.

Ever case is judged on its own merits and to me it is silly to compare the Bulger case.. Stick to the first suggestion.

Those two 10year olds behaved in an unbelievable manner and I have no sympathy with them whatsoever, but.......... They were 10 years old.

If those two murderers were nine years and 364 days old then they would not have even be charged with murder (unless the laws have changed)

So in my opinion ity was silly to compare one offence to the other.

Age of 'criminal responsibility'

Ten is the legal age of 'criminal responsibility'
Children under the age of ten are not considered to have reached an age where they can be held responsible for their crimes. Because they are under the age of 'criminal responsibility', they can't be charged with any criminal offence.
Children aged 10-14 can be convicted of a criminal offence if it can be proved that they were aware that what they were doing was seriously wrong.
After the age of 14, young people are considered to be fully responsible for their own actions - in the same way as an adult would. However, there are some differences in the type of sentencing young offenders will receive.

 

[Apial]

pa.press.net
"A new photograph of Ronnie Biggs shows the ailing Great Train Robber lying bare-chested in his hospital bed.
Biggs, 79, who was refused parole last week, is being treated at the Norfolk and Norwich Hospital after being moved from a nearby prison.
In the picture, sent to MPs by his legal adviser Giovanni Di Stefano, he appears frail with his arms heavily bandaged and tongue lolling out of the side of his mouth.
His son, Michael, said Biggs had pneumonia, plus fractures of the hip, pelvis and spine and could die if he does not respond to treatment. He has suffered three strokes and cannot eat, speak or walk, according to Mr Di Stefano."

I see little point in keeping Ronnie Biggs in prison when even if released has little chance of any freedom or escape from his terminal illness. Is Jack Straw waiting for the inevitable so as to make a point? I say shame on Straw .

 

[Howard]

I suspect there would be a miraculous 'recovery' if he was released ...