Ronnie biggs parole refused

[verytalldave]

Well SOMEONE coshed the driver with an iron bar. And until someone admits who actually did it, then he must remain one of the suspects.
He was certainly implicated in the assault by virtue of being a member of the gang.
My suspicions are that the police KNOW who it was who wielded the iron bar, but don't have sufficient proof to bring about a prosecution.

And as a last word on this point, purplegoddess didn't actually say that RB hit anyone over the head.

But that's all slightly academic. What it really boils down to is whether you agree with Straws decision not to grant Biggs early release.
With the circumstances surrounding the case pertaining as of this moment in time, I do.

 

[st4]

Its simple. The man should remain behind bars. He comitted a crime, absconded from the UK and lived the life of Reilly over in Brazil and then returned to Britain. By doing so he effectively handed himself in. He has to then face up to the consequences of his actions that if you rob you go to prison and if you're clever enough to escape that, you aren't stupid enough to return to the country in which you are to serve a 30yr sentance.

His age, condition have nowt to do with it. So far he has another 20yrs to serve.

I cannot believe we have a 7 page thread over something so simple as this. The guy was convicted for a crime, 30 yrs have passed since that but the conviction and subsequent sentence are still valid.

 

[Smarties]

Why talk of the American penal system? Yet more smoke and mirrors, lets stick to the facts please.

Biggs does not deserve UK healthcare on his past record he has only ever taken from the system not given to it so what right does he have to it?

No smoke or mirrors, just plain facts. I was trying to demonstrate, that we, unlike America have a nationalised Health Service, that is open to all, Young, Old, Working, Unemployed, Retired, Prisoners, indeed even non British citizens that may happen to be members of the EU. We would like to consider ourselves a civilised society, your suggestion that Ronnie Biggs should be withheld treatment for his past misdemeanours (‘Personally I wouldn't treat him’) would not mirror that.

 

[Smarties]

Its simple. The man should remain behind bars. He comitted a crime, absconded from the UK and lived the life of Reilly over in Brazil and then returned to Britain. By doing so he effectively handed himself in. He has to then face up to the consequences of his actions that if you rob you go to prison and if you're clever enough to escape that, you aren't stupid enough to return to the country in which you are to serve a 30yr sentance.

His age, condition have nowt to do with it. So far he has another 20yrs to serve.

I cannot believe we have a 7 page thread over something so simple as this. The guy was convicted for a crime, 30 yrs have passed since that but the conviction and subsequent sentence are still valid.

The original post was to question the validity, indeed the humanity, of keeping an 80-year-old infirm man incarcerated after serving 10 years of a frankly ludicrous 30-year sentence. Illness aside, He has now served a term that is comparable not only to the other convicted Train Robbers, some of whom played a far greater role in the robbery, but by the standards set by modern sentencing, a term that Murderers, rapists, child molesters and some truly evil individuals, do not serve. Where is the ‘Justice’ in that?

 

[st4]

The original post was to question the validity, indeed the humanity, of keeping an 80-year-old infirm man incarcerated after serving 10 years of a frankly ludicrous 30-year sentence. Illness aside, He has now served a term that is comparable not only to the other convicted Train Robbers, some of whom played a far greater role in the robbery, but by the standards set by modern sentencing, a term that Murderers, rapists, child molesters and some truly evil individuals, do not serve. Where is the ‘Justice’ in that?

He came back to the UK on his own free will. Reep and sow is what I say.

If he thought that much of Brazil where he lived well for 30yrs waving the middle finger to the British justice system then perhaps he should have stayed there. But no, he wanted the NHS care we have. He had enough monies, should have kept them to pay for his own healthcare abroad, so we the tax payer have to a) pay for his fiscal imprudence b) watch him get off lightly (just because others do doesn't mean he should)

 

[Colin_b]

He came back to the UK on his own free will. Reep and sow is what I say.

If he thought that much of Brazil where he lived well for 30yrs waving the middle finger to the British justice system then perhaps he should have stayed there. But no, he wanted the NHS care we have. He had enough monies, should have kept them to pay for his own healthcare abroad, so we the tax payer have to a) pay for his fiscal imprudence b) watch him get off lightly (just because others do doesn't mean he should)

If economy is your justification for keeping him locked up, why are we wasting money of guarding him, providing him a secure place, food, heating and the like?

We the taxpayer would pay less if we tossed him out of prison and let him fend for himself.

 

[glojo]

Smartie
In the year 2008

3 prisoners were murdered whilst in prison

61 prisoners commited suicide

2 died of non natural causes

NINETY SIX died of natural causes.

NINETY SIX DIED OF NATURAL CAUSES

Now apart from the media trying to influenece the way we think, the way we react and possibly the way we vote, have you any idea how old any of the ninety six prisoners were that died of natural causes?

Have you any idea if any of these ninety six were ill, or infirm?

Have you any idea if any of the ninety six are more deserving of your, or our sympathy?

Whether you agree or not is of little concern but the only reason why Biggs is being highlighted is because his story sells newspapers. Editors could not give two figs about this person, they are more concerned about what sells newspapers.

 

[flango]

Really? His own personal prison at huge cost?

I think you are in danger of turning a small time crook who got involved with one big crime and has no convictions for violence who thumbed his nose at authority with war criminals.

No I meant he shoul die in prison the same as Hess and for the record I am not comparing the two.

Biggs had convictions for violence pistol whipping, breaking limbs of loan victims springs to mind, he was a henchmen for the gang long before the Great Train Robbery people are making him out to be an angel when in fact he was a violent thug.

 

[Colin_b]

No I meant he shoul die in prison the same as Hess and for the record I am not comparing the two.

Biggs had convictions for violence pistol whipping, breaking limbs of loan victims springs to mind, he was a henchmen for the gang long before the Great Train Robbery people are making him out to be an angel when in fact he was a violent thug.

From what I've read Biggs was up until the train robbery a fairly unsuccessful petty criminal. No convictions for violence, pistol whipping or breaking legs as far as I know. If you know better, a pointer would be appreciated.

Compare the treatment of Biggs and Wilson, both sentenced to 30 years for the same offences in the same robbery, both escaped and spent time abroad (Biggs Brazil, Wilson Canada)

Wilson was certainly a more violent criminal than Biggs, yet was released having served 9 years of his 30 year sentence.

I have no sympathy for Biggs at all, he is a criminal that deserved to be locked up. What worries me a little is why he is being made a scapegoat, compared to Wilson.

The justice system appears to be using double standards in this case.

 

[flango]

From what I've read Biggs was up until the train robbery a fairly unsuccessful petty criminal. No convictions for violence, pistol whipping or breaking legs as far as I know. If you know better, a pointer would be appreciated.

.

Please read posts #44 & #50 also the autobiographies are worth a read.

In case I have been unclear, before and during the Great Train Robbery

"BIGGS WAS A VIOLENT CRIMINAL" FACT!!!!

As he admits in his biography, as the Krays point out in there biography and as nipper read points out in his.

 

[verytalldave]

The original post was to question the validity, indeed the humanity, of keeping an 80-year-old infirm man incarcerated after serving 10 years of a frankly ludicrous 30-year sentence. Illness aside, He has now served a term that is comparable not only to the other convicted Train Robbers, some of whom played a far greater role in the robbery, but by the standards set by modern sentencing, a term that Murderers, rapists, child molesters and some truly evil individuals, do not serve. Where is the ‘Justice’ in that?

Incarcerated..........hardly.
mondofacto dictionary - definition of incarcerated

As I understand the current situation he is currently receiving medical treatment in Norwich General Hospital. Obviously under prison guard as you would expect, but if he is as frail and as infirm as we are all led to believe he is, then I cant see what difference it would make if he were "released". As I said, if reports are to be believed he will most likely remain in hospital, probably for the rest of his life. His one-time ambition of walking into a Margate pub and ordering a pint of bitter now seems totally impossible regardless of his status.
I suspect he is being kept at her majestys pleasure mainly because of him doing a runner after only serving 15 months of a 30 year sentence and in the intervening years taunting the British government very many times.
Remember- he didnt have to come back to the UK. It was his free choice to do so and he was fully aware that the police were waiting for him to place him back under arrest almost as soon as the plane landed. In fact he was paid quite hansomely for his return by the SUN newspaper. £20K if I remember correctly.
The health and age of a prisoner has got nothing to do with how much of a sentence they should serve. If that were the case anybody who was sick or/and over 75 years old would be virtually imune from receiving a custodial sentence. In other words, free to do whatever they wanted without regard or thought to punishment. Clearly this cannot be the case.

 

[Colin_b]

Please read posts #44 & #50 also the autobiographies are worth a read.

In case I have been unclear, before and during the Great Train Robbery

"BIGGS WAS A VIOLENT CRIMINAL" FACT!!!!

As he admits in his biography, as the Krays point out in there biography and as nipper read points out in his.

Biggs has no conviction for violence. Theft, AWOL resulting in a dishonorable discharge from the RAF and the like, certainly. He was not convicted of violence in the train robbery. There is much heresay that he was a violent man, but no convictions or proof, principally due to his elevated media profile.

He consorted with violent people, certainly, and got sentenced for that crime.

If we are to keep him in prison as he dies, I'd rather it were done fairly and equitably, rather than for reasons that look like revenge.

I agree with you that Biggs is a nasty piece of work, and deserved locking up when he was a threat. However, now is is incapable of wiping his own bottom, and represents no threat beyond embarassment to the authorities of 40 years ago.

 

[Smarties]

Please read posts #44 & #50 also the autobiographies are worth a read.

In case I have been unclear, before and during the Great Train Robbery

"BIGGS WAS A VIOLENT CRIMINAL" FACT!!!!

As he admits in his biography, as the Krays point out in there biography and as nipper read points out in his.

As posted previously, I studied this case extensively 25 or so years ago, and the views I hold now where formed then. Nothing I read or learned at that time suggested that Ronnie Biggs had a violent disposition or was directly involved in violent acts.
This is not an inherently evil individual, and other than the crime of absconding from prison and being a thorn in the side of HM government, he has not in the 45 intervening years re-offended or committed any crime. In this time, He has fathered and raised a Child, Michael Biggs, who is on record as saying his father, was strict, but fair, and he himself seems to be a decent chap with no criminal tendencies.
Ronnie Biggs had offered to return to the UK in the early 70’s, but the then justice secretary would not consider any clemency on the original 30 year sentence, in addition, when his old adversary, Slipper of the Yard caught up with him in Brazil, he agreed to come back both verbally and in writing, but stayed in Brazil when the Brazilian authorities declined his extradition, as Scotland Yard/The Home Office, had not observed the basic protocol and formalities for requesting repatriation. I am now in receipt of RB’s Parole report, which will detail his past offences, and will be interested to learn if there are any convictions recorded for ‘violent’/aggravated crime.

 

[Smarties]

Incarcerated..........hardly.
mondofacto dictionary - definition of incarcerated

QUOTE]

Confined; imprisoned; trapped

Sorry VTD, When not at liberty to come or go (Hospitalisation aside), I would have thought that all those definitions applied.

 

[flango]

As posted previously, I studied this case extensively 25 or so years ago, and the views I hold now where formed then. Nothing I read or learned at that time suggested that Ronnie Biggs had a violent disposition or was directly involved in violent acts.
This is not an inherently evil individual, and other than the crime of absconding from prison and being a thorn in the side of HM government, he has not in the 45 intervening years re-offended or committed any crime. In this time, He has fathered and raised a Child, Michael Biggs, who is on record as saying his father, was strict, but fair, and he himself seems to be a decent chap with no criminal tendencies.


Ronnie Biggs had offered to return to the UK in the early 70’s, but the then justice secretary would not consider any clemency on the original 30 year sentence, in addition, when his old adversary, Slipper of the Yard caught up with him in Brazil, he agreed to come back both verbally and in writing, but stayed in Brazil when the Brazilian authorities declined his extradition, as Scotland Yard/The Home Office, had not observed the basic protocol and formalities for requesting repatriation. I am now in receipt of RB’s Parole report, which will detail his past offences, and will be interested to learn if there are any convictions recorded for ‘violent’/aggravated crime.

I think you are living in your own fantasy world, Biggs himself admits in his biography he was a heavy villain arrested numerous times for violence, nipper read confirms this in his biography what more do you need? I'll dig out the book and give you a quote from it, but I doubt that will even satidfy you.

You have your opinion I have mine and opinions vary, but Jack Straw's opinion is the one that matters and he has got it bang on, let scum like Biggs rot in Jail !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Smiley]

Seems the majority on here agree with Jack Straw; me too. If he were well enough to fly I would also be happy to see him go back to Brazil and never be allowed back to the UK; that way we would save the cost of looking after the arrogant tw*t.

 

[Apial]

Biggs himself admits in his biography he was a heavy villain arrested numerous times for violence, I'll dig out the book and give you a quote from it, QUOTE]

So you own a book written by this R Biggs and you have helped him profit from the actions of his crime???

Double standards, me thinks.

Next you will be admitting to reading Jeffrey Archer!

 

[flango]

Biggs himself admits in his biography he was a heavy villain arrested numerous times for violence, I'll dig out the book and give you a quote from it, QUOTE]

So you own a book written by this R Biggs and you have helped him profit from the actions of his crime???

Double standards, me thinks.

Next you will be admitting to reading Jeffrey Archer!

No, it was on loan from a friend ( A barrister actually)

No double standards just high moral principles.

Jeffery who !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Colin_b]

No, it was on loan from a friend ( A barrister actually)

No double standards just high moral principles.

Jeffery who !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One question.

You are happy he should serve the heaviest sentence that our justice system can dispense, imprisonment for the duration of hid life.

Had he deliberately killed someone in the process of the train robbery he could serve no harsher sentence.

How does that persuade another criminal that surrender would be a better choice than shooting (for example) a way out?

 

[andy_k]

Colin, my answer to part one of your question would be...

No, I don't neccessarily wiant to see him imprisoned for the rest of his life but I do want to see him serve the sentence he was given (which was 30 years) less any time off earned for good behaviour

I do not class escaping and living off 'brand Ronnie Biggs' (see preovious posts) for 35 years as good behaviour so I'm not sure why he's earned any remission from his original term.

I do not give a stuff that he is dying ( I believe he was supposedly dying 10 years ago). I don't care that he's old and I care even less what he and his family wants. If he is confined to hospital, then they can visit him there (how could they take him home if he is that ill?)

I do care that after all this time, this piece of pond life is still a burden on the British taxpayer - correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe he has done a 'proper' days work since being discharged from the army.

We as taxpayers owe him nothing why should he expect any form of treatment, let alone special treatment?

Part two - he was part of the gang that went to rob a train - armed. He wasn't an innocent little nice chap who just got carried along, he was a viscious thug who was directly involved. If you know somebody is going to commit an armed robbery and you not only don't tell anyone but are actively involved in the planing then you are just as much to blame as the guy that pulls the trigger and deserve the same sentence

part three

Quite a simple choice there, surrender or die. I don't see how that is even vaguely relevent to this