Rotating tyres...

renault12ts

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...is this still done at service time, or does anyone do it at regular intervals (assuming you don't have a staggered set up? I ask because they seem to still do it in the US).
 

markjay

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Good post...

1. In the olden days we used to rotate wheels clockwise including the spare, however nowadays most cars do not have a proper spare, and also there are suggestions that it is not a good idea to reverse the direction of rotation of a tyre once it has bedded-in (though Tony WIM seems to think it is OK to do so).

2. On my RWD Merc the rear tyres wear quicker than the front ones, and the opposite on my FWD Renault. Which is as you would expect. I therefore make a point of asking Olly to rotate the tyres front-to-back and vice versa once in a while when servicing the cars, though not on each and every service because my annual mileage is very low these days on both cars (said that, this is just me being overly pedantic about having even tyre wear all around - for the ABS/ESP and so on - I have yet to replace a set of tyres because they were worn - it is usually a combination of the tyres' age and me wanting something new... as result my tyres get replaced at 4-5mm, and always as complete sets).

3. I am not sure what the B Schedule says, but on the A Schedule the wheels don't actually come off, so no rotation there. The car's handbook does mention tyre rotation (for non-staggered setups) but the impression is that MB seems to think this is the owner's responsibility rather than something which is included in the service schedule.


Would be interesting to know what others do...
 
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Beno

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I do it on my wife's X type (Non staggered wheels) as its front wheel drive it keeps the wear pretty even. Only down side is all the tires will need replacing around the same time.
 

Dieselman

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...is this still done at service time, or does anyone do it at regular intervals (assuming you don't have a staggered set up? I ask because they seem to still do it in the US).

Mercedes recommend to rotate the tyres every 6,000 miles as they recognise the rears wear the centre and the fronts wear the shoulders .
 

Dieselman

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I do it on my wife's X type (Non staggered wheels) as its front wheel drive it keeps the wear pretty even. Only down side is all the tires will need replacing around the same time.

Which is a good thing as it means the car remains balanced and you can get better discount on four.
 

Dieselman

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Good post...

1. In the olden days we used to rotate wheels clockwise including the spare, however nowadays most cars do not have a proper spare, and also there are suggestions that it is not a good idea to reverse the direction of rotation of a tyre once it has bedded-in (though Tony WIM seems to think it is OK to do so).
He also recommends running higher front tyre pressures than rears on Mercedes RWD models, which is incredibly dangerous on a rear drive car.
2.because my annual mileage is very low these days on both cars (said that, this is just me being overly pedantic about having even tyre wear all around - for the ABS/ESP and so on - I have yet to replace a set of tyres because they were worn - it is usually a combination of the tyres' age and me wanting something new... as result my tyres get replaced at 4-5mm, and always as complete sets).
Tyres start with 7-8mm of tread. So are you saying that you replace when 1/3 worn.

Isn't that just a bit over protective?
 

redbaron

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He also recommends running higher front tyre pressures than rears on Mercedes RWD models, which is incredibly dangerous on a rear drive car.

why so? surely it will promote understeer - just like running narrower fronts...


(as an aside always amuses me that people think staggered setup is better - it is really for those that cant handle the back end moving first.....)
 

Dieselman

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why so? surely it will promote understeer - just like running narrower fronts...

Wrong.
It will promote snap oversteer, a situation most drivers can't handle.



That reminds me. Yesterday morning I saw a 18 tonne lorry that snap oversteered off a motorway roundabout. It was well off the road into the grass.


Maybe if we had more factual posts on this forum, members would be better educated in motoring matters... :) ;)
 
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wemorgan

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(as an aside always amuses me that people think staggered setup is better - it is really for those that cant handle the back end moving first.....)

That makes 911 drivers the biggest bunch of girls I know of ;)
 

redbaron

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Wrong.
It will promote snap oversteer, a situation most drivers can't handle.

Maybe if we had more factual posts on this forum, members would be better educated in motoring matters... :) ;)

I would have thought there were other factors at play rather than just tyre pressure - sidewall stiffness, tyre construction, camber and castor.... I can see where you are coming from but it isnt quite that simple..

perhaps my comments regarding this are more track than road focused of course...

Personally I like a bit of oversteer and it doesnt intimdate me..... obviously were I an overstretched lease car pilot who would struggle for repair costs were I to modify a hedge, then I would perhaps be more circumspect.
 

Dieselman

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I would have thought there were other factors at play rather than just tyre pressure - sidewall stiffness, tyre construction, camber and castor.... I can see where you are coming from but it isnt quite that simple..

perhaps my comments regarding this are more track than road focused of course...

Personally I like a bit of oversteer and it doesnt intimdate me..... obviously were I an overstretched lease car pilot who would struggle for repair costs were I to modify a hedge, then I would perhaps be more circumspect.
How about you mow down a bus queue of people and your insurance company void your insurance because your tyre pressures are outside the prescribed limits to give you more of a thrill?

I remember going on a Rolling Road tuning day and there was a 600Bhp Supra there with bent up rear end components.

The driver thought traction control was for woosies. :rolleyes:

As far as tyres.
obviously, if you fit Michelins on the front and chinese ditchfinders on the rear you are altering the dynamics, but if we can keep the thread on this planet and you fit one decent brand all round, the tyre pressures alter the slip angles, hence they are set as prescribed by the manufacturer.
 

redbaron

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How about you mow down a bus queue of people and your insurance company void your insurance because your tyre pressures are outside the prescribed limits to give you more of a thrill?

I remember going on a Rolling Road tuning day and there was a 600Bhp Supra there with bent up rear end components.

The driver thought traction control was for woosies. :rolleyes:

As far as tyres.
obviously, if you fit Michelins on the front and chinese ditchfinders on the rear you are altering the dynamics, but if we can keep the thread on this planet and you fit one decent brand all round, the tyre pressures alter the slip angles, hence they are set as prescribed by the manufacturer.


Hold the agression Will, I am trying to have a sensible conversation with you.

It is really very simple - the less front end grip a rwd car has compared with the rear the more likely that the oversteer will be "more violent" when it comes. This is fact - I am not disagreeing with you.

I merely pointed out that tyre pressure is not the only factor that can "invoke" this trait or counter it. :dk:

As for mowing down a bus queue - as much as that thought appeals I have not tried it... and in my current 129 it is unlikely to be able to happen without a liberal coating of white stuff. which would defeat your avg bus driver before it did me. ;)

(and my front tyre pressures are not higher than the rears FWIW)
 
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Would be interesting to know what others do...

Before having staggered set-ups on my Mercs, I did used to rotate the wheels when the fronts were at about 4mm, it was my dad that first got me in the habit.
 

markjay

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To DM:

Yes, I change tyres before they are fully worn, there is a waste element agreed, though you need to also take into account that tyre grip supposedly deteriorates with wear and age.

At any rate, with common-sized tyres, changing them every 5-6 years on low-mileage cars isn't that expensive as a running cost. Different story for high-mileage drivers who would face this expenditure once or twice a year, or those with expensive low-profile tyres.
 

Colin_b

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It isn't practical to rotate mine. Different sizes front/rear and clockwise only rotation. Such is progress.
 

Dieselman

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Hold the agression Will, I am trying to have a sensible conversation with you.

It is really very simple - the less front end grip a rwd car has compared with the rear the more likely that the oversteer will be "more violent" when it comes. This is fact - I am not disagreeing with you.

I merely pointed out that tyre pressure is not the only factor that can "invoke" this trait or counter it. :dk:

No aggression here, I'm trying to keep the conversation factual and to tyre pressures only, not have a number of other variables to contend with as well.

The lower the tyre pressure, the greater the slip angle, so the driving wheels need higher pressures to cope and in addition a RWD car will have a tendency to oversteer anyway.

You said that WIM suggest having higher pressures on the front of RWD Mercedes, which is definitely bad advice and could be positively dangerous.

Facts are conspicuous by their absence on this forum and could lead to people getting injured, killed or into hot water.
 

Dieselman

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You do know what my other car is?:mad:



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