Rubbish bins, Planning Permission, etc...

[markjay]

We live in a block of flats (10 flats).

The buildings in our street do not have individual bins.

There are a large rubbish bins in four locations along our street, that serve all residents.

It has been this way for the past twenty years (at least).

There are vaults under the pavements in front of each building. Presumably the rubbish bins were located there at some point of time in the distant past before the Council provided the bins centrally.

Over the years, some properties have converted the vaults into residential flats. This was all done properly with Planning Permission etc.

Now someone raised an interesting (though you could argue hypothetical) question. What happens if the Council decides to cancel the central bins?

I.e., can they do that and leave residents with no bins, given that the areas where the bins used to be are no longer available (and the Council approved it)?

(What could compound matters further is that the Vaults would have been moved from the Landlord's demise to a Leaseholder's demise, thus leaving the Landlord without communal areas where the rubbish bins might go.)

What do you think.....?

 

[markjay]

Quick update - just called the Council, not surprisingly they won't commit to anything, but what they did say is that if the central bins get cancelled at any point of time in future, then the most likely outcome would be that residents will be required to place the rubbish in the street in plastic bags. So I suppose that's sort of an answer.

 

[davidjpowell]

Landlord does not have to provide bin areas (unless it say so in the lease). You would have a smelly flat!

 

[markjay]

Landlord does not have to provide bin areas (unless it say so in the lease). You would have a smelly flat!

Thanks.

The leases are old, and just say that access needs to be granted to the bins. This relates to when the building still had a bins area (20+ years ago). But it does not specifically say that bins area need to be provided.

So some Leaseholders suggested that this implies that the Landlord has a responsibility for providing bins area. Other argued that access is understood to be provided IF such area exit, but as there are no bin areas at current, this clause in no longer applicable.

I understand that this is something for solicitors to agree or disagree on, I was more interested in the Council's position on this issue.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Since giving in and complying with the local authorities commitment to recycling (I don't mean commitment in the positive way I mean that they have committed to unreasonable waste targets which impacts on the rest of us), we produce less than a black bin of genuine 'dirty' waste a fortnight.

Kerbside bag collection might not be a big issue if you adopt recycling enthusiastically.

 

[markjay]

..I understand that this is something for solicitors to agree or disagree on, I was more interested in the Council's position on this issue.

The epistemologal question is of course whether 'access to the bins' means 'the areas allocated for the bins, regardless of whether there are actual bins there or not ', or perhaps it mean 'the bins, in whatever location in the building they might be'.

 

[Meldrew2]

The epistemologal question is of course whether 'access to the bins' means 'the areas allocated for the bins, regardless of whether there are actual bins there or not ', or perhaps it mean 'the bins, in whatever location in the building they might be'.

Surely it would be difficult to interpret 'access to the bins' as 'access to the areas historically allocated for the bins, despite the bins actually being elsewhere'

Not that I'm suggesting that the High Court couldn't be obtuse enough... ... ...

 

[Peter103]

Surely the local authority has the responsibility to provide containers for refuse collection, if the designated bin area was given up by the council, they would still be responsible for waste collection and would need to site the bins convenient for occupants of the properties,and for their own transport to collect, perhaps in the kerb side, or to the rear if access is available. Personally I wouldn't give it a second thought, it will probably never happen.

 

[BTB 500]

we produce less than a black bin of genuine 'dirty' waste a fortnight.

Wow, how many people is that for?

 

[markjay]

..Personally I wouldn't give it a second thought, it will probably never happen.

Me neither - but you will be surprised at the length to which some people will go when looking for reasons to disagree with something.......

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Wow, how many people is that for?

That's just 2 of us, plus dog. We are allowed 3 bags a fortnight, it's become obvious who the plebs are in our neighbourhood on black bag day.

All plastic is recycled, all paper/cardboard, all tin and bottles. The food waste goes down the disposal unit.

What's left goes in the black bag which isn't a lot!

Garden waste is collected for recycling.

If I was to take a black bag to the tip (recycling centre) they insist that I open it and recycle any of the above.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Me neither - but you will be surprised at the length to which some people will go when looking for reasons to disagree with something.......

Ain't that the truth!

 

[BTB 500]

That's just 2 of us, plus dog. We are allowed 3 bags a fortnight, it's become obvious who the plebs are in our neighbourhood on black bag day.

All plastic is recycled, all paper/cardboard, all tin and bottles. The food waste goes down the disposal unit.

What's left goes in the black bag which isn't a lot!

Garden waste is collected for recycling.

If I was to take a black bag to the tip (recycling centre) they insist that I open it and recycle any of the above.

Ah OK. There are five of us plus 8 dogs and we completely fill the wheelie bins for recycling and refuse (collected on alternate weeks). Mrs BTB takes glass and some other stuff separately to a local recycling point and I do occasionally have to take 'surplus' rubbish to the local tip. They've just started opening black bags there to look at what's inside - they've been checking what's inside your car for a while now because they charge for certain things. You also need a permit disc to get in at all. If I want to go in the Vito (which fits under the height barrier) I have to apply for a special permit in advance, valid for one day only. And they inspect to make sure it's only bringing domestic household waste in.

 

[developer]

Landlord does not have to provide bin areas (unless it say so in the lease). You would have a smelly flat!

In 1998 I converted a 3 storey house into 3 flats, with planning permission.

As part of the planning process I had to declare where the refuse facilities (bins) were to be located for each flat - luckily there was a courtyard accessible to all.

Different council. different circumstances, but...

 

[Piff]

The flat I own in a block of 4 has a ground floor bin store approx 4' to 5' square. Fine for 4 old fashioned dustbins.
Now each flat has 2 wheelie bins collected on alternate weeks they all get put in in one of the flats gardens (fortunately not mine)
The bin store is full of someone's broken furniture which they can't be bothered to take to the council tip.

 

[markjay]

In 1998 I converted a 3 storey house into 3 flats, with planning permission.

As part of the planning process I had to declare where the refuse facilities (bins) were to be located for each flat - luckily there was a courtyard accessible to all.

Different council. different circumstances, but...

....and different times, I guess.