'Rude' police punishing middle classes to hit Home Office targets

[Dragon]

Some of the members here can tell us more.............

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2052629/Police-punishing-middle-classes-to-hit-targets.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

Faced with a police force that cannot catch a cold, with clear-up rates that are among the lowest in the western world, what is a Home Secretary to do?

Top down, all you can do is set targets and challenge the police to improve their performance against those targets, in whatever way they can. The Government has relied almost entirely on that approach.

Quite clearly, it has failed.

What is needed is bottom up police reform, from the grass roots upward. But this Government doesn't have the courage to face up to that. Neither did the previous Government, or the ones before that. And that is why we are in the current mess. Deep in it.

 

[st4]

The police would do well to remember who pays their wages, probably the sort of people it seems to target these days.

 

[UnMarked]

The police would do well to remember who pays their wages, probably the sort of people it seems to target these days.

So should these tax-payers be exempt from statute? Or should the un-worked, unwashed and uncaring masses be the only ones 'targeted' by the police?

 

[st4]

So should these tax-payers be exempt from statute? Or should the un-worked, unwashed and uncaring masses be the only ones 'targeted' by the police?

I never actually said that, but should the "unworked, unwashed and uncaring masses" not be targetted on the basis they can't afford to pay a fine? Thats the way policing seems to be heading, lets nab a 33mph motorist as its easier than getting ones hands dirty on a sink estate.

Do you think the roads would be so heavily policed if the punishment for road traffic offenses didn't involve cash?

 

[UnMarked]

Do you think the roads would be so heavily policed if the punishment for road traffic offenses didn't involve cash?

I personally don't think the roads are that heavily policed. For example, in North Yorkshire at any one time there will only be about 20 Traffic Cops working (excluding a couple of Sergeants). Considering the size of the county, the miles and types of roads, along with its close proximity to more sizable areas such as Leeds/Manchester/Newcastle (A1 runs straight through the middle) I don't think its roads are over-policed at all.

And, it's not just tickets *** - there are lots of other incidents that occur on our country's roads other than speeding but they don't seem to generate as much criticism or interest as cash generation policies I guess?

 

[st4]

I personally don't think the roads are that heavily policed. For example, in North Yorkshire at any one time there will only be about 20 Traffic Cops working (excluding a couple of Sergeants). Considering the size of the county, the miles and types of roads, along with its close proximity to more sizable areas such as Leeds/Manchester/Newcastle (A1 runs straight through the middle) I don't think its roads are over-policed at all.

And, it's not just tickets *** - there are lots of other incidents that occur on our country's roads other than speeding but they don't seem to generate as much criticism or interest as cash generation policies I guess?

Okay, I'll change my wording to monitored. Where else do you see camera's activated by an offense that issues an automatic fine. Clearly not in Glasgow city center @ night. I think the police target those who they think will pay up easily, or who won't resist.

Whilst speeding is a criminal offense, there are ones which are much more serious that go un punished by the police, bar the throwing apple cores on the street, blocking a lift with your foot, and overfilling your bin.

 

[Gollom]

And, it's not just tickets *** - there are lots of other incidents that occur on our country's roads other than speeding but they don't seem to generate as much criticism or interest as cash generation policies I guess?

And that's the trouble with all this. We probably don't see 99.9% of what our poilce deal with and therefore focus is drawn to the unpopular stuff. Whan's the last time you picked up a paper praising everyday events? Unlikely to happen as it does not sell copy!

IMHO the police do a fantastic job - which is spoilt by the tiny percentage of "bad apples" (aided by c**p legislation put together by a spineless and money grabbing government?)

For the record - I hate being done for speeding too. But if it potentally saves a life/prevents injury if I slow down a touch? <shrugs>

Just my 'tenpennorth

 

[Sp!ke]

IMHO the police do a fantastic job - which is spoilt by the tiny percentage of "bad apples"

Actually, I really disagree here. My experience (as is many others) is that the Police force is full of bad apples only separated by the minority who do a fantastic job.

The Telegraph report clearly shows this is indeed the case as nationwide the Police simply can't be bothered with crime unless they think its an easy clear up for their stats. Thats not good policing nor is it doing "a fantastic job".

 

[UnMarked]

Okay, I'll change my wording to monitored. Where else do you see camera's activated by an offense that issues an automatic fine. Clearly not in Glasgow city center @ night. I think the police target those who they think will pay up easily, or who won't resist.

Whilst speeding is a criminal offense, there are ones which are much more serious that go un punished by the police, bar the throwing apple cores on the street, blocking a lift with your foot, and overfilling your bin.

I can't comment on Glasgow's methods of policing as I don't live or travel there. However, all speed enforcement in my area is done by police officers - there are NO speed cameras in north Yorkshire. Surely this lends itself to a more acceptable method of managing speeding issues? (and the ACPO 10%+2mph comes into play as a minimum).

I drive and like most other road users I break the speed limit from time to time (intentionally or otherwise). This does not make me a criminal and if stopped I wouldn't expect to be treated like one nor would I want the officer being rude to me (original thread). There are some officers who can be brusque or otherwise when dealing with the public. However, most of the police officers I know (99% tbh) are fair, objective, polite and more importantly human when talking or dealing with Mr and Mrs Joe and Josephine Public. BUT there will always be exceptions. And that's life as they say in France .

Just to clarify speeding is not a criminal matter (unless it transgresses into dangerous driving).

 

[Dieselman]

The Telegraph report clearly shows this is indeed the case.

Careful, you're falling into the media trap.

The artical 'says' this is the case, it doesn't 'show' it is.

This isn't a presumption either way, just saying beware of what is written in a newspaper artical without the full facts being available.

You would need the details of what every Police officer was doing all year and the details of any arrests/issue of tickets, etc to know whether this was a reasonable impression of reality.

 

[Sp!ke]

I've experienced this cant be bothered attitude first hand though Dieselman on numerous occasions.

 

[Satch]

Some of you are missing the point: these views are endorsed by those on the ground and represent very real concerns and are not just about motoring offences.

Paul McKeever, chairman of the Police Federation for England and Wales, said the organisation had long voiced concerns about the issues in the report.

"Police officers are struggling to bring some common sense to the increased demands of a target-driven culture, which is all too often resulting in arrests to boost the statistics we are judged upon, rather than to do what is right for the public.

"This vicious circle of chasing targets then further alienates us from the majority of law-abiding people."

There is also a more basic problem here:

".....performance-related pay bonuses of between £10,000 and £15,000 a year for commanders who managed frontline officers partly depended on reaching targets for sanction detections.

"In order to meet targets, police are now classifying incidents as crimes that would previously have been dealt with informally, classified differently or ignored," said the pamphlet.

"Many police complained senior officers were pressurising them to make arrests they considered unethical."

This extends into funding for the force with the end result that stupid number games will drive out replace proper policing, easy quick "wins" must take priority and it all goes to hell.

 

[Gollom]

I've experienced this cant be bothered attitude first hand though Dieselman on numerous occasions.

I respect your opinion Sp!ke - but would point out that I have met way more helpful police than non-helpful police.

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

The police would do well to remember who pays their wages, probably the sort of people it seems to target these days.

Why on earth would an educated middle class person wish to join the police? I cannot imagine a less attractive job, and that includes emptying bins or cleaning toilets.

So the police tend to recruit from among those who are less educated, and people of lower than average intelligence are probably over-represented among their numbers as a result. So that's the scenario at grass roots level.

At the top level, this Government has made strenuous efforts to encourage the appointment of Chief Constables who are educated middle class people. The prime example being Ian Blair in the Met, but there are quite a few other examples around the UK.

So you now have the picture; a poorly educated and badly trained workforce that isn't especially intelligent, led by educated middle class senior officers they cannot relate to, working to Government targets imposed by a Home Secretary who is a self-confessed cannabis user (or was) in whom the Police Federation has no confidence whatsoever (an opinion that is widely shared among the population as a whole).

That sounds to me like an ideal breeding ground for a campaign by officers on the streets against innocent middle class people in order to meet the arbitrary performance targets imposed by a dope-smoking Home Secretary.

 

[UnMarked]

So the police tend to recruit from among those who are less educated, and people of lower than average intelligence

Eee bah gum I've been found out at last

 

[Gollom]

Eee bah gum I've been found out at last

ROFL!

 

[Dieselman]

Better change your Avatar to 'sussed'...

 

[Sp!ke]

Eee bah gum I've been found out at last

Well you are from Yorkshire so were not surprised it took you so long to work that one out.

 

[pammy]

Well you are from Yorkshire so were not surprised it took you so long to work that one out.

Well it did take him 30 years to work out the mistake of yonks ago ..... - sorry babe

And how anyone can make such sweeping statements that the police must be low intelligence - well says more about the OP than the people being commented on.