S211 - "Enhancements"

[MattEly]

Hi Guys

Slightly confused here. Had a call last week from the local dealer, asking me to book my car in for several "enhancements" under warranty.

Apparently these "enhancements" involved 6.5 hours of work under warranty to "bring my car up to the current standards". Is it me, or are Mercedes taking the Microsoft approach to product delivery? How can an S211 on an 03 reg need nearly 7 hours of upgrade work to bring it up to scratch (although I hadn't noticed anything wrong with it anyway)?

I have asked the delear to email me details of what they have actually done, and I await their response with interest.

If any of you knowledgable souls can shed any light, it would be appreciated!

I was impressed that the dealer offered a collect & return service and valeted the car as well (easily pleased, me).

Cheers

Matt.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

Most likely updating the ECU and other computerised systems, nearly 7 hours though?

 

[scotth_uk]

Don't forget that any inspection work that MB do has a load of tasks on a checksheet with time units allocated. I had copies of all the paperwork for the 190, and things like checking windscreen and washer bottle would have 15 minutes against it, etc. If they were doing a top-to-toe inspection only with no actualy work it would probably take 1-3 hours on paper. That would be in addition to any actual work that needed to be done.

 

[saorbust]

I wonder if its anything to do with the SBC problems...

 

[DITTRICH]

..is it just me or do others think the "standard" times for different service actions are really longer than a competent mechanic would need to do the job? I suspect there is a 10-15% (guess) loading here.
Les

 

[GrahamC230K]

From reading elsewhere, I think there is an update to the parking brake pedal/mechanism?

 

[Satch]

I wonder if its anything to do with the SBC problems...

Well, per Autocar the new S class will not be equipped with SBC at all. It will revert to a "more traditional" assisted hydraulic system tricked up to provide the Hold, Stop and the "wet" braking functions provided by SBC which are very useful indeed.

That ties in with MB now backing away from the excesses of the Bosch inspired techno-fest that much of their dealer network cannot properly support.

 

[glojo]

Well, per Autocar the new S class will not be equipped with SBC at all. It will revert to a "more traditional" assisted hydraulic system tricked up to provide the Hold, Stop and the "wet" braking functions provided by SBC which are very useful indeed.

That ties in with MB now backing away from the excesses of the Bosch inspired techno-fest that much of their dealer network cannot properly support.

Yet they have it installed on the SLR? Has anyone got any complaints about it?

The SBC recall is something about nothing and Mercedes-Benz are just doing a belt and braces job by recalling vehicles.

I don't know why the media enjoy picking on Mercedes-Benz and let me give an example to highlight my point.

A number of years ago we had two fatal accidents within a very short period. The first involved a fuel injected Ford Capri and a mini bus carrying disabled people. There were five fatalities that were tragically burnt to death. Within two weeks a mechanic was killed whilst testing a fuel injected Ford Orion, the car hit a mud bank and burst into flames, killing the driver.

Fortunately for Ford drivers the same accident investigator, investigated both accidents and during his investigation he discovered that following the two collisions the cars engines stopped, but the fuel pumps carried on pumping fuel?? The investigator then sent a fax to all Police Forces querying whether they had dealt with any serious accidents where fuel injected cars had burst into flames.

A number of forces replied citing Fords as being involved. The manufacturer was contacted, information exchanged and only then was remedial action taken. I will not elaborate any further on what action. However Ford were aware of this problem but had NOT issued a recall!!

Mercedes-Benz had a number of reports from taxi drivers staing there brakes were feeling 'spongey' and not as responsive as they should be. This was investigated and they now want to check all 211 vehicles. No fatalities, no serious accidents, yet people say they are secretive??

I'm happy about the way Mercedes-Benz have dealt with the SBC issue and the brakes are marvellous.

Regards,
John the Party Man

 

[scotth_uk]

They think it's fashionable and fun given the well publicised but not necessarily valid quality issues. People love to knock the Merc for no good reason.

People need to understand - it's the sh*t dealer network that ruins the UK ownership experience, not the car!

 

[gary350]

I used to get these (or similar) from the local BMW dealer (when I was poor) they were really covert recalls, they used to add them to my services with a no charge placed against them, saves a bit of bad publicity.

gary

 

[Steve_Perry]

...Is it me, or are Mercedes taking the Microsoft approach to product delivery? How can an S211 on an 03 reg need nearly 7 hours of upgrade work to bring it up to scratch (although I hadn't noticed anything wrong with it anyway)?...

Heh I guess you are driving an S211-SP2 or maybe you're already up to Service Pack 3.

S.

 

[Shude]

Reminds me of Quake II! Released just in time for xmas but didn't actually work out of the box unless you downloaded a 50MB patch from their website.

It took mercedes 7 years to design the W202. It took 3 years to do the W203, sounds like it took them about 20 minutes to do the W211 then a couple of years of after-sales fiddling to make them right!

 

[Dieselman]

Yet they have it installed on the SLR? Has anyone got any complaints about it?

The SBC recall is something about nothing and Mercedes-Benz are just doing a belt and braces job by recalling vehicles.

Mercedes-Benz had a number of reports from taxi drivers staing there brakes were feeling 'spongey' and not as responsive as they should be. This was investigated and they now want to check all 211 vehicles. No fatalities, no serious accidents, yet people say they are secretive??

I'm happy about the way Mercedes-Benz have dealt with the SBC issue and the brakes are marvellous.

Regards,
John the Party Man

This isn't the whole story. A few 211s fitted with SBC have had total brake failure.

The enhancements are to SBC software, fuel injection pumps and injectors, navigation software and various other bits.

The SBC and fuel injection problems are obviously the most important.

Interesting that MB are asking drivers to take the cars in, not surprising given that they would have to issue a recall notice otherwise..Bad PR.

 

[Dieselman]

That ties in with MB now backing away from the excesses of the Bosch inspired techno-fest that much of their dealer network cannot properly support.

This seems to be the case. Bosch are well ahaed on developing new systems but the quality of the end product just isn't good enough.

Maybe MB should swap to either Magnetti Marelli or Nippon Denso for the supply of it's electronics.

 

[marcos]

This isn't the whole story. A few 211s fitted with SBC have had total brake failure.

Mercedes have denied this and stated that compared to conventional systems the failure rate is exceptional.

Maybe MB should swap to either Magnetti Marelli or Nippon Denso for the supply of it's electronics.

Apparently the patnership with Mitsubishi was to get to grips with Japanese electronics, this partnership seems to have died a death so make your own conclusions, but look at Japanese electronics in generall and they just can't be bettered.

 

[Dieselman]

Apparently the patnership with Mitsubishi was to get to grips with Japanese electronics, this partnership seems to have died a death so make your own conclusions, but look at Japanese electronics in generall and they just can't be bettered.

Maybe the Japs didn't want to be associated with such unreliable vehicles and poor after sales.

 

[glojo]

This isn't the whole story. A few 211s fitted with SBC have had total brake failure.

The enhancements are to SBC software, fuel injection pumps and injectors, navigation software and various other bits.

The SBC and fuel injection problems are obviously the most important.

Interesting that MB are asking drivers to take the cars in, not surprising given that they would have to issue a recall notice otherwise..Bad PR.

Hi Dieselman,
The comment you have made is very, very serious and I would NOT want a car that has suspect brakes!

I have not heard anything about a complete failure of the braking system and would really appreciate any information.

There has been a recall issued for this problem, but like all recalls it is a request to take the car to the local dealer.

I have owned a number of new vehicles and this is how all the recalls have been worded in my limited experience. Volkwagen are doing the same thing with a potential fuel leak. Rolls Royce had a potential risk of cars 'bursting into flames' and only issued a similar worded recall. I have never heard of anything worded more strongly.

If the SBC problem had been serious then the US market would have been the first to have received this letter, but instead they have only got it within the last couple of months.

Thanks for any further information that you might have.

John
The concerned

 

[Satch]

This is stated to be the problem and that SBC goes into backup hydraulic mode. That means instead of moderate foot pressure producing the impressive retardation modern car users are used to, you end up with unassisted hydaulic brakes which require a very much more foot pressure.

"Defect: On certain passenger vehicles, the electronic monitoring system of the Sensotronic Brake Control (SBC) is designed to monitor the pressure gradient within the high pressure line of the brake system. If an unacceptable pressure gradient is detected, the system will switch, as it is designed to do, into the hydraulic function mode. If vehicles are not routinely serviced and have extremely high mileage combined with a high number of brake actuations, or a high brake actuation frequency, the pump motor of the SBC may run out of permissible tolerances, thereby triggering the hydraulic function mode.
Remedy: Dealers will inspect the SBC hydraulic unit, replacing it if necessary."

 

[glojo]

This is stated to be the problem and that SBC goes into backup hydraulic mode. That means instead of moderate foot pressure producing the impressive retardation modern car users are used to, you end up with unassisted hydaulic brakes which require a very much more foot pressure.

"Defect: On certain passenger vehicles, the electronic monitoring system of the Sensotronic Brake Control (SBC) is designed to monitor the pressure gradient within the high pressure line of the brake system. If an unacceptable pressure gradient is detected, the system will switch, as it is designed to do, into the hydraulic function mode. If vehicles are not routinely serviced and have extremely high mileage combined with a high number of brake actuations, or a high brake actuation frequency, the pump motor of the SBC may run out of permissible tolerances, thereby triggering the hydraulic function mode.
Remedy: Dealers will inspect the SBC hydraulic unit, replacing it if necessary."

Hi Satch,
That is the exact same information I have. It is nowhere near as bad as say the pump breaking down on a power assisted system. We still have as you described the 'hydraulic mode'. To 'humour' the US market I think they are also bleeding the system.

Thanks,
John

 

[glojo]

Hi Everyone,
I have just spoken to my dealership at Exeter in relation to the 'Upgrades' for my own S211 320 CDI Avantgarde. The lady I spoke to in the Service Department informs me that my particular model has had ELEVEN upgrades since it was first produced. My own vehicle is in need of four.

1. Navigation
2. COMAND
3. Central Gateway
4. Braking Unit

I jumped on the braking unit upgrade and wanted to know further details, unfortunately she had to find out the information and phone me back....... 5 minutes later ring, ring. The braking recall is evidently a fine tuning of the P005 SBC Recall. The parameters need to be reset or some such gobble de gook. I then asked if there was a problem with the SBC brakes. NO was the clear answer, I was assured that this was definitely NOT a safety issue. It is in NO way connected to any safety issue whatsoever and quite simply an adjustment of parameters.

My vehicle is now booked in to have the upgrades on the 12th January, the car will be collected and a courtesy vehicle left here.


Regards,
John