S212: method in my man-maths?

[WillDeBeest]

I've posted a few thoughts here - and got some good ones back - on my search for a 2009 S211 E220. It's not the only option - we also like the Skoda Superb and possibly the Audi A6 - but it's probably the nicest thing to travel in that our high-teens budget will buy.

I've confined my search to what we could buy for cash, but poking around yesterday, I found various accounts of finance-driven deals on new S212s that made me think. Our cash budget would comfortably cover the payments on a three-year PCP plan and leave something in reserve to put towards the final payment. I'd also have three more years of annual bonuses in the bank, so there should be no problem there.

This is appealing not just because of the idea of a new car, but because we need family transport to last seven years or so. An S211 bought now would be seven years old in another four, and we'd probably have to top it up with another £10,000 just to get back in a three-year-old. This method just transposes the two chunks of expenditure for a very similar total, as well as letting us keep one car throughout, choose the colour and benefit from the greater fuel efficiency of the newer model.

Leave aside for the moment the relative merits of the S211 and S212. Does this thinking make any sense - and if so, where should I be looking for the deal to make it possible?

 

[Sp!ke]

Local Skoda dealer here was offering a very nice deal on Superb Estates. 20% off RRP.

Think the 1.6 Diesel estate (green something) with leather and all the trimmings was £20k new with 0% finance.

Went for a drive in the demonstrator, very impressed.

 

[C240Sport97]

Local Skoda dealer here was offering a very nice deal on Superb Estates. 20% off RRP.

Think the 1.6 Diesel estate (green something) with leather and all the trimmings was £20k new with 0% finance.

Went for a drive in the demonstrator, very impressed.

is that all Superb Estates or just the petrol or lower powered diesel ones?

 

[Ted]

1 Can you afford it? If yes, go to 2.
2 Do you want it? If yes, go to three
3 Does buying a new car ever really make sense? If no, go to 4
3 Do you really want to be sensible for the rest of your life? if no, go to 5
5 Do you REALLY want to take Spike's advice? If no, go to 6
6 Here's the big one. Can you persuade the wife? If yes, go to 7
7 You have arrived at the dealership. Would sir like a cup of tea or coffee?

Yup. The logic seems to work here.

Edit: Actually, the Superb is a really really nice car.




NOOOOO!!! too late!! you've already arrived at point 7!

 

[WillDeBeest]

There was - may still be - a Skoda UK promotion of 'VAT-free' prices on some cars, but all diesel Superb estates - even the 1.6 Greenline II - were specifically excluded. That wouldn't be 20%, of course, so Spike's dealer may be offering something better.

Was it a Greenline demo you drove, Spike? I've tried a 2.0 diesel with the DSG transmission (didn't like the DSG, but I could have a manual with a proper handbrake), and I'd be interested to know how the 1.6 engine copes in such a big car. It also offers the only Elegance version with 16" wheels instead of 18s, which is a point in its favour.

 

[WillDeBeest]

...If no, go to 4...

Help! I can't find number 4.

6 Here's the big one. Can you persuade the wife? ...

I've attempted that fence already. She wasn't appalled; surprisingly encouraging in fact.

 

[Merc Owner 2B]

Only problem with Skoda's is residual value.

If you intend to keep it indefinitely then it won't matter.

You get what you pay for.

 

[Igurisu]

Slightly off topic but loosely related.

When the Superb was going through final trials as a new model I was spending a lot of time in Bentley working with their development engineering. One particular engineer was also working on the Skoda Superb, he told me an interesting story.

When the final pre-production cars were examined by the VW engineering team they were "too good". In fact they were deemed to be above VW level and directly comparable to Audi in terms of fit/finish/trim quality. It was considered to be such a problem that the programme was delayed by three months so that the interior trim materials could be downgraded. This kept the Superb in the correct pecking order of Audi > VW > Skoda. It was mainly door cards and seat materials that were downgraded, but some other bits and pieces were changed also.

 

[WillDeBeest]

That would account for the occasional bit of nasty washing-up bowl plastic in the Superb's cabin, but you have to look hard - it's all at ankle height or below. I expect I'd stop noticing them after a week.

It might also explain the truly dreadful instrument graphics. Honestly - it's my single biggest objection to the car!

Anyway, nice diversion. But how about my S212 plan?

 

[st13phil]

Running a new car, whether financed by PCP or bought cash, is always the expensive option when it comes to motoring. That said, if you want to do it and have the funds to do it then go ahead.

 

[Igurisu]

I can see the attraction of the PCP and there are some great deals around for sure. For me personally my biggest complaint about car ownership is depreciation, for this reason alone if I was in your situation I would probably be going for the S211. Also I'm a little old fashioned, I like to own my car so In the event of trouble (job loss or other financial problems), it would be one less thing to worry about.

 

[Dieselman]

Only problem with Skoda's is residual value.

If you intend to keep it indefinitely then it won't matter.

You get what you pay for.

^ What a ill informed statement.

Named: Depreciation winners and losers | News | Auto Express

Skoda cars have the best residual values of all the VAG range.

 

[WillDeBeest]

I can tell DM hasn't looked at the asking prices for one- and two-year-old Superb estates. Enough to set me looking for Audis instead, because the same money seems to buy an A6 that's only six months older than the Superb.

Edit: sorry, DM - it wasn't your statement, was it?

 

[Merc Owner 2B]

^ What a ill informed statement.

Named: Depreciation winners and losers | News | Auto Express

Skoda cars have the best residual values of all the VAG range.

You have to look a lot deeper than those reports. The Skoda Yeti was in short supply and demand for used models was high which inflated their prices. Since they are basing their percentages on list price, companies that heavily discount from new will apparently lose out. Vauxhall are renowned for this.

At the end of the day people do not pay high prices for used Skodas (Yeti excluded).

 

[WillDeBeest]

I agree that percentages don't mean much in this context and what matters is the cash value before and after. So the only numbers that really matter to me are resale values at the end of my time with the car. If I know - or can at least estimate - those, then it's up to me to negotiate a buying price that makes the drop bearable.

So what might these be worth in 2018, assuming bought new in summer 2012? These are the models I'd most likely choose if buying new.

Mercedes E220 CDI estate, SE automatic
Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI estate, Elegance manual

I don't really expect anyone to know, of course. The Mercedes probably starts about £7,000 above the Skoda. I might guess the Skoda would be worth £5,000-£7,000 at six years. I wouldn't expect the E220 to have maintained the differential, would you?

So the amount by which the gap has narrowed is the extra cost of owning a Mercedes over a Skoda. That doesn't make it not worth paying, of course; it just puts a dent in the oft-parroted argument that you can save money by buying a more expensive car because of 'bulletproof residuals'.

Complicated, this man-maths, innit?

 

[John]

It was considered to be such a problem that the programme was delayed by three months so that the interior trim materials could be downgraded. This kept the Superb in the correct pecking order of Audi > VW > Skoda. It was mainly door cards and seat materials that were downgraded, but some other bits and pieces were changed also.

Interesting.

We took our new Juke in to have a missing option fitted - and borrowed a Fabia.

The good points were - DSG on a small engine petrol was excellent, stereo was fantastic and it drove OK. The VRS looks great (and goes quite well as my car will testify).

However, I noticed the look and feel of some materials was shocking. Whilst I am the first one to complain at others for highlighting poor materials, in this case even I noticed.

 

[gIzzE]

Running a new car, whether financed by PCP or bought cash, is always the expensive option when it comes to motoring. That said, if you want to do it and have the funds to do it then go ahead.

Not really, you can be in a new E220cdi executive SE estate with an auto 'box for less than you can be in a 4 year old S211 E220cdi estate from a main dealer, if you look at overall ownership costs over 3 years and 36k miles.

Mercedes are throwing money at new metal at the moment.

But then so are Audi, I was just offered £6000 off a new A6 S-Line Avant this morning, and that was before even asking for anything.

Contract hire is around £100 a month cheaper again!



Buying new on a contract hire is currently cheapest, buying at up to a year old with 30% off is next and only slightly more but with more options at the end of the term, and about the same level as buying 4 years old with 40k miles on it.


Cars are a funny thing cause of the depreciation curve.


First year around 30%, year 2 around 10% and year 3 around 5%.
However, own one from year three to 7 and it can be very costly again.

Something about an 09 plate, people think it is new and pay top dollar for it, it is now a 3 year old car.

 

[WillDeBeest]

Really thinking very hard about that SE Exec option, Gizze. I went as far today as popping into an MB showroom in the hope of picking up a more realistic illustration than the one on the MB UK site, but this being a bank holiday, the most junior salesman had been handed the short straw and was the only one there. He tried hard but wasn't really in a position to help.

He did say something interesting, though: that PCP wasn't a clever way to buy a car for the long term, and that an HP (or, sadly, as he put it, 'a HP') arrangement would cost me less, and that the same dealer contribution would be available that way. More questions to ask about that, clearly.

Anyway, I do like the sound of 'throwing money at new metal' - especially if it's not mine. Does this mean the same salesman who rejected my very reasonable offer for a '2009' AG once it had turned out to date from April 2008 will be more pleased to hear from me this time round?

Incidentally, just for balance, we called in at a VW shop too, to see if we could fit in a Passat. We could, but Beestling Major, 11, who accompanies me on these visits in the role of technical consultant, commented thus: "Dad, if we have one of these it'll feel like we've just died." I know what he meant, too; at least the Superb has a but of individuality about it. But I think we really want a Mercedes.

 

[markjay]

Local Skoda dealer here was offering a very nice deal on Superb Estates. 20% off RRP.

Think the 1.6 Diesel estate (green something) with leather and all the trimmings was £20k new with 0% finance.

Went for a drive in the demonstrator, very impressed.

Assuming that's for a new car, not pre-registered - there's a facelift for 2012 so it seems as if the big discount is to clear pre-facelift stock?

http://www.carstrend.com/the-skoda-superb-2012-facelift-spy-shots.html

 

[Red C220]

Register on Drive the deal and check the prices on there.

This generally gives you the lowest price available for any particular car at any particular time and is a benchmark againt which you can calculate any best offer you're finding.