Santa Pod RWYB

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Just noticing its faster doesn't prove anything, neither does a before/after dyno run (Although you can assess the old torque/power curve vs the new one, to see why you may feel its faster). Because all that will do is show you the maximum power the car is capable of producing, even if that max power figure is achievable for a single rpm in your rev range.

What I did with the 230K was time my runs, for example, hold it in 3rd gear and go from 10-20mph all the way to the end of the gear, which ends at around 95mph (on a runway of course!:)), and thats how I could tell if it made a difference, and I was lucky in my case because it actually did make a difference in conjunction with all the other mods i had on it.

I think I'll disagree there with you, I think it proves that my car is now faster when I feel it go faster, more responsive etc... I do not need a stopwatch to tell me that my car is now officially faster by 0.4 of a sec...

Also getting the stopwatch out and timing the car is not always accurate, it depends on allot of things like weather conditions, fuel, tyres, tyre pressure and type of road your on, etc etc.. just because your 230k was faster that day doesn't not mean it was because of the remap, knowing it's a 230K the remap was probably a total waste of your money, If I remember rightly a member on here took his 230K to DMS and it did not do anything!

A few years ago when I had my 2001 210 55 remaped I tried to time the 0-60 and it was always showing a different figure, lowest was 4.9secs and highest being 5.3secs. but at the time I've noticed different roads = different 0-60 times.

A decent remap is not just about making the car faster from 20 to 95mph but the main thing is it should also improve the way the car drives and I doubt your stopwatch can tell you that, only you can when you drive the car and notice the difference.. I think that should prove something as well.!

In my opinion the correct way to carry out a remap is to test the car on the dyno before and then after the remap, people may think otherwise but that's fine.;)
 
It would be worth one day having your c32 on the dyno to see if the remap did anything, also I recommend a kleemann pully, you would be in the 400bhp:D

Ive thought about having a pulley or headers fitted but its an expensive mod for a 5K car......the Kleeman pulley and map is about £1700 :eek: Id rather put that sort of money towards an E55 estate.
 
Yep, I'm up for this as well. Just need to start and finish my little brake project and I'm good to go. Lopes80 would probably be interested to go too.
 
I think I'll disagree there with you, I think it proves that my car is now faster when I feel it go faster, more responsive etc... I do not need a stopwatch to tell me that my car is now officially faster by 0.4 of a sec...

Also getting the stopwatch out and timing the car is not always accurate, it depends on allot of things like weather conditions, fuel, tyres, tyre pressure and type of road your on, etc etc.. just because your 230k was faster that day doesn't not mean it was because of the remap, knowing it's a 230K the remap was probably a total waste of your money, If I remember rightly a member on here took his 230K to DMS and it did not do anything!

A few years ago when I had my 2001 210 55 remaped I tried to time the 0-60 and it was always showing a different figure, lowest was 4.9secs and highest being 5.3secs. but at the time I've noticed different roads = different 0-60 times.

A decent remap is not just about making the car faster from 20 to 95mph but the main thing is it should also improve the way the car drives and I doubt your stopwatch can tell you that, only you can when you drive the car and notice the difference.. I think that should prove something as well.!

In my opinion the correct way to carry out a remap is to test the car on the dyno before and then after the remap, people may think otherwise but that's fine.;)

My remap was a live map and it wasn't done by DMS, DMS aren't the benchmark for all maps on mercs although they are very good in general (and expensive).

Unfortunately, the stopwatch is the only way you can tell a car is faster because speed = distance / time ;), I obviously did more then 1 run (5 before & after actually) and took an average and it was definitely faster.

Yes I do agree a car should drive better after a map, but I personally wouldn't fork out any money just for my car to drive better.

And to justify why I took it from 20mph - 95mph in 3rd, is because obviously at 20mph the engine will be at very low revs and it will struggle more than if you put it in 2nd gear for example, this intial struggle will give you a good indication of how it performs in the lowest part of its rev range progressing onwards to its redline (at 95mph). So while doing this, you will get a feel (and time) of how your car builds up its torque across its rev range.
 
Also getting the stopwatch out and timing the car is not always accurate, it depends on allot of things like weather conditions, fuel, tyres, tyre pressure and type of road your on, etc etc..
In my opinion the correct way to carry out a remap is to test the car on the dyno before and then after the remap, people may think otherwise but that's fine.;)


Unfortunately your opinion is wrong. A stopwatch is a much better method of assessing a cars performance than an inertia dyno or even more likely your Butt Dyno..;)
A stopwatch on the open road isn't corrupted like the false atmosphere in a dyno room. It will pick up differences as little as running with a cold or warm air intake.

You say your car feels faster...how can you quantify that without timed runs.
A dynomometer can be made to read almost anything and guaranteed it will be made to read more just after you have spent £300 or so on a remap.

If the stopwatch can't measure a difference, there isn't one.
 
My remap was a live map and it wasn't done by DMS, DMS aren't the benchmark for all maps on mercs although they are very good in general (and expensive).

Unfortunately, the stopwatch is the only way you can tell a car is faster because speed = distance / time ;), I obviously did more then 1 run (5 before & after actually) and took an average and it was definitely faster.

Yes I do agree a car should drive better after a map, but I personally wouldn't fork out any money just for my car to drive better.

And to justify why I took it from 20mph - 95mph in 3rd, is because obviously at 20mph the engine will be at very low revs and it will struggle more than if you put it in 2nd gear for example, this intial struggle will give you a good indication of how it performs in the lowest part of its rev range progressing onwards to its redline (at 95mph). So while doing this, you will get a feel (and time) of how your car builds up its torque across its rev range.


I respect what your saying but I disagree, I don't think a stopwatch is the 'ONLY' way you can tell a car is faster, it is one way if done correctly though!
 
Unfortunately your opinion is wrong. A stopwatch is a much better method of assessing a cars performance than an inertia dyno or even more likely your Butt Dyno..;)
A stopwatch on the open road isn't corrupted like the false atmosphere in a dyno room. It will pick up differences as little as running with a cold or warm air intake.

You say your car feels faster...how can you quantify that without timed runs.
A dynomometer can be made to read almost anything and guaranteed it will be made to read more just after you have spent £300 or so on a remap.

If the stopwatch can't measure a difference, there isn't one.

If you think i'm wrong then that's your opinion I personally happen to think your wrong...

My brother has a device called ScanGaugeII which gives you an estimate of the bhp and when connected on his JCW it gave more or less the same figures the dyno gave 212bhp, or did he make it say whatever he wanted?

I know there are allot of remaping companys which talk allot of bull**** and there remap does not do anything to the car etc...
 
If you think i'm wrong then that's your opinion I personally happen to think your wrong...

My brother has a device called ScanGaugeII which gives you an estimate of the bhp and when connected on his JCW it gave more or less the same figures the dyno gave 212bhp, or did he make it say whatever he wanted?

I know there are allot of remaping companys which talk allot of bull**** and there remap does not do anything to the car etc...

I don't care what you think, a stopwatch is the best way of telling whether a mod has been successful, a RR isn't, especially on an automatic gearbox.
Why do you think racing teams use stopwatch timings for lap times after modifications?

A scangauge can only estimate on the information the ECU gives it. After a remap (especially on a diesel) the information will be incorrect, which is why the fuel consumption calculators are no longer accurate.

How can a stopwatch be wrong? Run the car and time it, modify it run the car and time it...Bingo..
It doesn't matter how much power you are showing as making, it's how much power over the range of the revs that matters.
The 212bhp your Brother's scangauge shows is irrelevant and highlights exactly what Adam has said about RR usage. You have become fixed on the headline power figure, not what it is meant to be achieving.

Maybe your Butt Dyno is also better than facts...Not.

Sounds like you're scared to get the stopwatch out having spent a load of money on a remap.;)
 
I don't care what you think, a stopwatch is the best way of telling whether a mod has been successful, a RR isn't, especially on an automatic gearbox.
Why do you think racing teams use stopwatch timings for lap times after modifications?

A scangauge can only estimate on the information the ECU gives it. After a remap (especially on a diesel) the information will be incorrect, which is why the fuel consumption calculators are no longer accurate.

How can a stopwatch be wrong? Run the car and time it, modify it run the car and time it...Bingo..
It doesn't matter how much power you are showing as making, it's how much power over the range of the revs that matters.
The 212bhp your Brother's scangauge shows is irrelevant and highlights exactly what Adam has said about RR usage. You have become fixed on the headline power figure, not what it is meant to be achieving.

Maybe your Butt Dyno is also better than facts...Not.

Sounds like you're scared to get the stopwatch out having spent a load of money on a remap.;)

Why are you getting so irritated?, seriously take it easy you moron I do not care what you say...:D

Yeah I'm so scared, I havn't even re-maped my car yet.:rolleyes: when I do i'll make sure i'll post the dyno graph on here just for you to see:D

off this thread now, the old tw@t is here as I know how this is going to end!!
 
Why are you getting so irritated?, seriously take it easy you moron I do not care what you say...:D

Yeah I'm so scared, I havn't even re-maped my car yet.:rolleyes: when I do i'll make sure i'll post the dyno graph on here just for you to see:D

off this thread now, the old tw@t is here as I know how this is going to end!!

I'm not irritated in the slightest, it's you that has resorted to foul language and name calling.

Forget the dyno chart, get the stopwatch figures, much more revealing. ;)
 
I'm not irritated in the slightest, it's you that has resorted to foul language and name calling.

Forget the dyno chart, get the stopwatch figures, much more revealing. ;)




chances are that if he is running more bhp, the car will be faster though ;)...even if it is minimal.

I am sorry but a hand timed stopwatch is not accurate at all, especially when we are going into the milliseconds.
 
chances are that if he is running more bhp, the car will be faster though ;)...even if it is minimal.

I am sorry but a hand timed stopwatch is not accurate at all, especially when we are going into the milliseconds.

If the difference is only miliseconds then there is no change in performance.

A hand operated stopwatch is fine for 1/10th of a second average. If a mod hasn't altered performance 1/10th it's not done worth doing.

Just because outright power has gone up it doesn't mean the car will go faster because the power might not be higher over as wide a revband.

If people performing power mods/upgrades would do some comparative testing we would soon see.

Have a read of this. In their opinion, the most important item for performance testing is a stopwatch.
Look at the example they give of removing the airfilter and hot/cold air intake. A stopwatch will measure changes as small as that.

Browser Warning

If a stopwatch is no good, why do Santapod measure the exact time taken down their 1/4 mile run?

problems using dyno's..

http://autospeed.com.au/cms/title_U...fication-ToolKit-Part-4/A_111146/article.html

Just so we are clear. Autospeed is a site for performance tuners who want quick cars regularly used on drag strips as well as road use.
 
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Am I thick? :confused:

What other way is there to check that my car is faster than before the re-map, than to use a stopwatch? :confused:
 
Am I thick? :confused:

What other way is there to check that my car is faster than before the re-map, than to use a stopwatch? :confused:

Re-read my post... It clearly says hand timed stop watch.


As to dieselman... Where are you getting your facts from that a hand operated stopwatch is accurate to 1/10th of a second. There is no consistency to your method. Fair enough if you were doing it on a completely straight road with an automated timing system (santapod). But using a hand operated stop watch... What rubbish!

Yes when you get your rolling road graph, you want a bigger area under your power curve which would prove that you have more power than before. Any good tuner will tune your engine specifically for this, not for the maximum bhp at one given moment.
 
I am sorry but a hand timed stopwatch is not accurate at all, especially when we are going into the milliseconds.

Re-read my post... It clearly says hand timed stop watch.
I understand your post but if you have to rely on milli-seconds to see that the car is quicker then the re-map hasn't made that much difference.
Unless you are talking about F1, where milli-seconds do count.....
 
Guys, its such a simple concept I can't believe its even being debated.

If you want to know if your car is faster, you ask it for its full power (so it can accelerate at its full potential) over a given distance before the modification... then do it again after the modification.

Its as simple as that.

Also Dieselman is just stating facts... he hasn't included any emotion in his comments and he is just stating facts with backed evidence and in this case its extremely plausible. There's no need to get hot-headed or start name calling, lets keep it cool.
 
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Aside from all the jolly banter about whether a stop watch is accurate or not, just to say I'm hoping to head up to RWYB this Sunday. I was going to go a few weeks ago but it was very wet.

Yes, it'll be cold so sub-optimal.
Yes, I'll struggle for traction.
But it'll be the first time I've done it so looking forward to seeing what'll happen.
 

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