SBC Hold Function

[television]

http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/newsarticle.html?&id=MER&doc=mer0011231


http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/11/30/151265.html


All dates that I ever give are exact build dates and not registration dates.

I do not know the exact date that "stop" was dropped as it is of no interest to me.

The hold function is on the new system that has replaced SBC

 

[Birdman]

Thanks Malcolm - knew I could rely on you!
So should I cross the SBC-equipped W211's off my list? That means no supercharged E55 then

 

[television]

Thanks Malcolm - knew I could rely on you!
So should I cross the SBC-equipped W211's off my list? That means no supercharged E55 then

Why do that, its a great system to use, and at all times the car stops immaculately. I think that this is one time when a system has cost MB more than what it cost us. there have been several re calls and in the USA I believe the system has a 10 year guarantee.

Many 211 owners complained of the noise of the pump and some could feel it through the brake pedal, and a damper was put in line that helped, but not perfect.

The other aspect was the need for specialized equipment when changing the pads and disc, but it can be done without and I have been involved with many 211's and 230's where you can do it yourself at home.

 

[glojo]

Thanks Malcolm - knew I could rely on you!
So should I cross the SBC-equipped W211's off my list? That means no supercharged E55 then

Before you rejoice too quickly the new system is already having service issues, namely with the adaptive brake (ABR) control module – The sealing gasket may not be to tolerance. As a result some of the convenience features of the ABR braking system may not function. Dealers will replace the adaptive brake control module as a precautionary measure. Approximately 13 vehicles are affected.

VIN range:
211.022 A969407 – A969436 219.377 A074470
211.056 A947280 – A961402
211.072 A946824 – A961432
211.077 A947353 – A961445

The older pre facelift US 211's which only had the system BrianWH had on his early 211 were all given a 10 year warranty. This applied to all 211's and not just those purchased after a certain date.

In Europe those that have the system are generally extremely pleased with it, but there will always be the odd one that dislikes it.

The plus factors far, far outweigh any minor complaint and to dismiss it because of unfounded gossip is illogical.

I am NO fan of SBC on the race track as from what I've seen it tends to get hot pretty darn quick, but I would bow to Dan on this issue.

John

Edit
I believe SBC is the most monitored option ever put onto a modern mass produced vehicle and I dread to think of the costing this has imposed on Mercedes-Bsnz? For example every UK sold 211 has had part of the SBC wiriing photographed. (not a lot of people know that )

 

[DansSlk]

It does overheat but i think thats more down to the rest of the braking system, most MB's (and most other cars for that matter) do start to cook the brake system after a short period of 'proper' use.

It's effect can be delayed with better brake fluid and proper warm-up and cool-down.

With the SBC and the ABR, SBC was the more complex of the two and being a braking system every little thing had to be in perfect working order all of the time.

Being a complex system it did have faults, probably no more than other systems of similar complexity but again being the brakes MB had to be pro-active about checking every little thing and then you have its servicing requirements they where not thought out very well and for a lot of people it tied them to the dealer for very simple jobs that they where otherwise capable of doing themselves, this is fixed in ABR.

ABR has its features integrated into existing control units to keep its complexity down, it basically has the good features of SBC but with some fat removed.

Its not perfect but its better, still SBC would not stop me from buying a car.

 

[glojo]

Its not perfect but its better, still SBC would not stop me from buying a car.

I tend to look on the SBC system as another step in the ever advancing technology of motor vehicles, it had its time and things have now porogressed. as you say the plusd issues have been kept and we are now into a new era. Will the US market accept it? Only time will tell.

regards
John

 

[C240Sport97]

that's because the 500s don't sell and sit in stock for a long while ...

FWIW I recently drove a June 2007 UK-registered CLS 500 with the 4996cc engine that according to the sales literature had been replaced by the 5461cc motor about a year earlier.

 

[timskemp]

I reckon there'll be another SBC type system soon, with hybrids and electric vehicles on the way there's less traditional waste power (vacuum, aux belt, exhaust gas) to drive auxilliaries and so more systems like brake, steering and air conditioning will go electronic.

As an aside - saw an E280CDi today looked like pre-facelift (only had the short chrome on the bootlid) - I didn't think they swapped to the new engines until the facelift? So will that be an E280CDi with SBC?

 

[Interaxis]

I've had track days with my E55 and I've had no problems with heat or anything for that matter. The system is good and works very well the only problem is the noise.

 

[DieselE]

Just to throw in a little factual information. My car is 2005 MY built in November 2004. It has SBC Hold but not Stop.

 

[DansSlk]

I've had track days with my E55 and I've had no problems with heat or anything for that matter. The system is good and works very well the only problem is the noise.

Pleased to hear it, as for noise try an electro-hydraulic box.

 

[DansSlk]

I reckon there'll be another SBC type system soon, with hybrids and electric vehicles on the way there's less traditional waste power (vacuum, aux belt, exhaust gas) to drive auxilliaries and so more systems like brake, steering and air conditioning will go electronic.

As an aside - saw an E280CDi today looked like pre-facelift (only had the short chrome on the bootlid) - I didn't think they swapped to the new engines until the facelift? So will that be an E280CDi with SBC?

I sure would like to see a brake system on every wheel, it add's a little complexity over a normal / SBC type system and you wouldn't save any weight over a normal system but it would be safer lose one and you still have 3 more.

It would mean going fully electronic for control but the throttle is already that way so why not the brake or steering for that matter weight to be saved with that one.

 

[Druk]

I have to say I'm delighted with the SBC with my only negative being the £200 it costs every two years to get Merc to change the fluid. £200 !! ?? and that's without them even looking at the pads.

 

[Interaxis]

Pleased to hear it, as for noise try an electro-hydraulic box.

What's this box then?

 

[DansSlk]

What's this box then?

Very similar mate but i was thinking of hydraulically operated manuals that tend to use an electrically powered (loud) pump.

 

[television]

I have to say I'm delighted with the SBC with my only negative being the £200 it costs every two years to get Merc to change the fluid. £200 !! ?? and that's without them even looking at the pads.

It is easy to change the pads and disc just like a normal car, when it comes to the fluid change I am sure that as it is a 2 man job that Ollie would let me help when the time comes to change it.

Re the noise complaints, it is more audible in a 211 than in the 230 and I must admit that I have never heard it while driving, possibly because the 211 is a quieter car

 

[glojo]

I've had track days with my E55 and I've had no problems with heat or anything for that matter. The system is good and works very well the only problem is the noise.

Well done and I suppose it has

a) A lot to do with very aggressive driving style (I could never bring myself to 'thrash'*** my own car)

b) The temperature monitoring which is designed to give early warning of things getting hot.

There are any number of videos demonstrating the SBC braking system overheating but these are either track day events, or boy racers being silly. The track day incidents are very common, even Clarkson demonstrated this on Top Gear.

I am a huge fan of SBC and none of my comments should be read in a derisory manner.

I note DieselE's comments and thank you.

Regards
John

** I mean aggressive driving in the nicest of terms and we are only talking track day driving.

 

[DansSlk]

Those warnings John aren't from the SBC itself, they come from sensors at the brakes.

The main SBC kit rarely overheats (just a pump and some valves) but as i said in my other posts the brakes do as you start to overheat the disks and pads then the fluid starts to fail.

 

[glojo]

John, you have tried 6 times to discredit me throughout this thread and failed, and here you go again, and I wish you good luck in your search.

I have given exact dates so far, I knew a 2005 211 car with it on, and I have driven that car, I also know that it is not on 2006 cars.

I really will avoid any of your post from now on, now I know what you are about.

Rather than argue with anyone it is always better to be sure of our facts.

This post hurt because all I was trying to do was be factual. The remarks made baffled me and I thought they were way out of order (In a weird way ).

I do not doubt Television drove a 2005 car with SBC Stop. If he said he drove it, then he drove it but............

Regrettably i cannot confirm the exact date but in approx mid-2004 the SBC Stop feature was deleted from production, but SBC Hold remained.

Should you have any further requirements, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Yours sincerely

Jon Kelly
Customer Service
DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center N.V.
Gaetano Martinolaan 10
NL-6229 GS Maastricht, The Netherlands


I can only assume the car driven by Television had a build date prior to July 2004 (that was actually the period it was stopped) and was not registered until 2005 although as discussed elsewhere for the UK market they are a made to order vehicle.

Regards
Joihn

 

[nigel cross]

John,
We all know that you were just trying to be helpful, and get all the facts.
Some people will allways take it the wrong way and get the wrong end of the stick.
Just keep being yourself