SBC warranty

[Gbrowncls55]

I have just come back from the states and discovered that MB US had extended the warranty on the built in obscelecence SBC pump to 25 years unlimited mileage. So if it reaches the max number of brake presses (my wifes SL got there at 60k!!) they will replace it.... Come on MBUK do the right thing......

 

[merc85]

LOL no chance,

 

[E55BOF]

Mb in the US only did so because legal action forced them into it. They are not compelled to do it in Europe, so they won't.

 

[Dryce]

I have just come back from the states and discovered that MB US had extended the warranty on the built in obscelecence SBC pump to 25 years unlimited mileage. So if it reaches the max number of brake presses (my wifes SL got there at 60k!!) they will replace it.... Come on MBUK do the right thing......

You're a bit late to the party on this one.

MB sort of had an unofficial goodwill replacement programme in the UK. 'Sort of' as it seemed to be understood but was undeclared. But people got updated software/resets and replacement pumps. Meanwhile in the US they had a longer term more formally declared reoplacement programme.

In the UK the unofficial goodwill setup seemed to fade about 2012/2013 when the younger SBC equipped cars would have been hitting 7 or 8 years old.

Oddly enough not long after that the replacement SBC pumps seemed to become available at lower prices to independent workshops. Coincdence?

 

[Will]

Any of the SBC equipped mainstream cars (eg the early 211, 219, R230 SL etc) are getting well into their second decade age wise.

I’d be embarrassed to ask for something that age to replaced under any warranty regardless of what they do in the USA.

25 years is frankly ridiculous, I’d be amazed if there were many 211s etc being used still once they reach that sort of age.

How come people don’t moan about rusty brake pipes or corroded calipers, both just and common and probably not far off the same cost to rectify!

 

[Doodle]

Ridiculous, but no less than I'd expect from the land of litigation with the cheeto-faced leader, where one must disclaimer people from their own abject stupidity.

 

[Dryce]

25 years is frankly ridiculous, I’d be amazed if there were many 211s etc being used still once they reach that sort of age.

The 25 years was unecessary IMO.

But the problem with SBC was two fold. First off the countdown expiry of the pump (as well as performance based monitoring). MB could have been clearer about this. Instead the whole issue was obsfuscated and further confused by the facility to extend the pump count in some ciorcumstances.

But the killer was the cost. £1800 or more for a replacement was just silly. And it's unlikely that the pumps should really have cost that. But the car industry is one that will charge £1500 for a moulded unpainted front bumper or £240 for a replacement key.

Rather than have a long warranty they should have just declared the details of the component expiry and charged an reasonable cost for the pump.

 

[Gbrowncls55]

Of course 25 years is nonsense, but so is the pump count expiring at 63k when the pump has not failed and is at half the Bosch max count.I know MB UK won't do anything this late in the day, just interested in what happened in the US. I have two SBC cars so it doubly irritating

 

[Dryce]

Of course 25 years is nonsense, but so is the pump count expiring at 63k when the pump has not failed and is at half the Bosch max count.

The pump can 'expire' because the control unit determines it is not charging the reservoir quickly enough.

While I don't think the situation has been handled well - the underlying approach of life expiring the pump in a timely fashion is a good strategy to ensure that the safety critical component is replaced in good time.

 

[whitenemesis]

Just think of all those Stuttgart taxis that ran many 100k km on this pump, ne'er a mention of complaint.
Interesting that all these hybrid systems from Toyota/Lexus use a version of this type of pump, not a single post on the subject....

 

[whitenemesis]

The update as of Aug 2018

 

[Dryce]

Just think of all those Stuttgart taxis that ran many 100k km on this pump, ne'er a mention of complaint.

ISTR that the issue came to light with taxis - and that was where the free replacements kicked off.

Interesting that all these hybrid systems from Toyota/Lexus use a version of this type of pump, not a single post on the subject....

Prius has had brake recall a while back.

If they have extended the life of the component and charge less then there will be considerably less owner angst. Also the nature of a hybrid is that it uses regenerative braking as much as possible so use of the actual hydraulicly operated friction brakes may be significantly less - reducing the demand on the pump to charge the system?

I was always puzzled by the MB system counting brake pedal actuations. That didn't make sense to me. I would have assumed it would be pump actuations that should be counted. The number of pump actuations on an SBC system would (AIUI) likely be be significantly less than the number of pedal actuations for most drivers. Maybe Toyota count pump actuations.

 

[Doodle]

What happens to a car a decade down the line isn't really of interest to the manufacturer. They're only interested in selling new cars, which the PCP model is aimed at fuelling. Making life easy for the person 2 or 3 owners later isn't their concern.

 

[Will]

I tend to agree.

Whilst I feel that someone who perhaps bought an SBC-equipped car new and suffered tens of ££££s in deprecation and spent ££££s on servicing should be perhaps offered a decent bit of goodwill towards the cost of replacement (or FOC) most of the people who complain at the cost of replacement of the SBC units are often those who bought their cars cheaply with several owners and a fair mileage on the clock (in other words, halfway through the cars expected lifespan)

Why should a manufacturer be expected to cover the cost of that so many years later?

All brake systems need maintenance - metal pipes age, as do the flexi hoses and on normal cars you have the other hydraulic components anyway (master cylinder etc) - I don’t see a campaign to have these replaced free for 25 years so why on earth an SBC pump?

 

[clk320x]

I tend to agree.

Whilst I feel that someone who perhaps bought an SBC-equipped car new and suffered tens of ££££s in deprecation and spent ££££s on servicing should be perhaps offered a decent bit of goodwill towards the cost of replacement (or FOC) most of the people who complain at the cost of replacement of the SBC units are often those who bought their cars cheaply with several owners and a fair mileage on the clock (in other words, halfway through the cars expected lifespan)

Why should a manufacturer be expected to cover the cost of that so many years later?

All brake systems need maintenance - metal pipes age, as do the flexi hoses and on normal cars you have the other hydraulic components anyway (master cylinder etc) - I don’t see a campaign to have these replaced free for 25 years so why on earth an SBC pump?

To be honest this is pretty much spot on, it’s a shame the pump is quite expensive but no one is forcing anyone to buy a SBC equipped car. I’ve got the SBC system on my W211 and I’m expecting to have to replace the SBC pump soon as it’s on 260,000 miles (it’s had a replacement before) but I’m more than happy to pay it as the W211 is just an excellent car, and mine has already had plenty money spent on it lol so it’s worth it to me

 

[Will]

I think to be fair people only complain about SBC pumps on cost grounds.

It may well cost £1800 for a new SBC pump supplied and fitted at an MB main dealer, but there’s other options available nowadays. Either a new pump and fitting at a specialist or even remanufactured pumps from Bosch or other specialist remanufacturing firms. Probably half that amount or less is realistic nowadays?

£1800 is pretty much what MB would charge to replace the front discs and pads on my non-SBC equipped E-class anyway!

 

[Dryce]

Why should a manufacturer be expected to cover the cost of that so many years later?

Well as you say in a another post it's the cost that is the problem.

Charging a fair cost for the component is one thing. Gouging the customer is another. Car makers take liberties with spare parts that are not generic. The SBC pump was an example of this - a unique single sourced part that left the customer trapped.

It would be interesting to see what the factory paid for the SBC pump. I suspect the difference between that and the price to customers paying for replacements would be pretty shocking.

 

[clk320x]

It would be interesting to see what the factory paid for the SBC pump. I suspect the difference between that and the price to customers paying for replacements would be pretty shocking.

IIRC on another thread someone mentioned it was around £200

 

[Will]

Well as you say in a another post it's the cost that is the problem.

Charging a fair cost for the component is one thing. Gouging the customer is another. Car makers take liberties with spare parts that are not generic. The SBC pump was an example of this - a unique single sourced part that left the customer trapped.

It would be interesting to see what the factory paid for the SBC pump. I suspect the difference between that and the price to customers paying for replacements would be pretty shocking.

But you can (or were able to) buy SBC pumps directly from Bosch, or have your own pump rebuilt/service exchanged from some of the other sources.

I’m not sure this is much different to needing a specific engine or gearbox part or any other non-generic electronic component (eg electronic ignition switches and keys) but Mercedes are not alone here, this is much the same across all manufacturers to some degree.

 

[richard]

I had a suspension block fail on my SL at about 5 years old, and they paid 90% under goodwill. I was very impressed and so was the dealer. I had a SBC pump fail at about 7 years and replaced FOC. Also very impressed. The SL has been serviced by Mercedes since it was new (I'm the only owner) in 2004 and will continue being so as a result. I'm sure if it wasn't dealer services Mercedes would not have been generous.

Cheers

Richard