Scam !

[219]

It is almost laughable that people are still trying on these scams .

Following my mum’s passing back in the summer , we are still selling off a number of items from the house ; one of the last being my mum’s 3 piece suite , including an electric riser/recliner for disabled users .

We had one previous enquiry where this couple came to view but didn’t buy , then a couple of nights ago my sister had this email offering slightly below her asking price , which she decided to accept . The email was from this female called Marie , who claimed to be deaf and in a wheelchair , hence couldn’t phone ; then there was a phone call from someone called Paul , calling on her behalf .

Then the story started to unfold . Due to being disabled , this person couldn’t collect but would send a courier , and wanted to pay by PayPal .

At this stage I thought a bit fishy , but could still be genuine , so I provided my PayPal address and a phone number as requested , but not any street addresses, and certainly not my mum’s house which is lying empty .

I wasn’t too concerned about giving my PayPal details as I never leave much in it , nor the bank account it is linked to , balances currently about £1 and £40 respectively; and the phone number I gave was a spare PAYG mobile we keep for emergencies.

Despite that info being provided yesterday morning, no contact and no payment at all .

Then this morning it came - email saying they had made payment, but of course courier had to be paid up front by cash paid into Western Union shop and they had added £360 to the payment.

I know the way this works is you pay the cash in and never see it again then the PayPal payment is retracted and you are left out of pocket .

The PayPal details were of someone with a foreign name and the consignment address was a bus station in Dubai !!!

Checked my PayPal and no money there , just my previous balance of £1.11 .

I immediately replied telling them to stop and I won’t be playing their game . I’ll also report to the police cyber crimes unit this afternoon when I have time .

Unbelievable.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I honestly wouldn't bother reporting this to action fraud if you expect them to do anything because they won't.

 

[219]

Don’t know if that is the same as police Scotland cyber crime unit , but we have a police liaison unit here in our building which I’ll pop along to when free .

Puts it on record in case of further trouble .

 

[Deleted member 6183]

It might be different in Scotland.

For the rest of the UK they won't pursue unless the amount is over £100k or something.

 

[markjay]

It might be different in Scotland.

For the rest of the UK they won't pursue unless the amount is over £100k or something.

This is correct.

The way it works is that the police no longer accept fraud complaints directly from the public.

Instead, victims of fraud are requested to report the fraud to ActionFraud, where it is logged in the ActionFraud database.

ActionFraud then run an algorithm on their database, looking for cases where the police would have a reasonable chance of actually detecting and solving the crime.

The criteria used by the algorithm are: UK based postal address, or UK telephone number, or email address, that appear in several separate fraud reports.

If these criteria are met, then the fraud is reported to the police, who may start an investigation.

But if this criteria are not met, then the automatic assumption is that the crime can probably not be solved (not without dedicating an unreasonable amount of resources to it, anyway) and it is therefore not reported to the police.

The report then lies on file in the database, and while it is not acted upon or even brought to the police attention, it is available for the police to view if they decide to look at it due to other enquires that connect to your report.

The exception to the above is that any reported fraud where the amount taken is £100,000 or greater, gets reported to the police by ActionFraud as a matter of course, i.e. regardless of whether the criteria above are met or not.

For this reason, scammers know that as long as they stay below the £100,000 threshold, and use different mobile phone number and different email address for each scam, or just use foreign phone or address, they can act with impunity.

The details of teir fraud will simply lie in the database and will never even be brought to the police attention.

To be fair to the police, fraud is now so common that they can't really be expected to actually deal with every case. It's down to the public and to be vigilant and avoid becoming a victim.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I think that Action Fraud might take up cases where it's clear that a number of combined instances add up to over £100k.

ETA

For clarity, in the above situation the authorities need to be sure that it's the same people behind the accumulated cases.

 

[219]

I rang Police Scotland on 101 and was put through to a very nice lady in the Cyber Crimes unit .

She listened to my story , asked for and took note of the various names , email addresses and street address provided by the scammers and said they would be kept on the database .

She did say that , since I haven’t lost any money it would not be counted as a crime , but thanked me for reporting it and that a lot of elderly and vulnerable people do fall for these scams , hence they like to hear about such instances.

I will now try to forget about this .

 

[Steveml63]

Give me the address in Dubai - it’s only an hour down the road - I’ll pay them a visit!

 

[Dryce]

To be fair to the police, fraud is now so common that they can't really be expected to actually deal with every case. It's down to the public and to be vigilant and avoid becoming a victim.

Cause and effect ......

They don't deal with it.

It is now so common.​

What they need is a petty crimes unit that actively targets nad makes examples of petty fraudsters. At the moment the crime is low risk - attempting it is almost zero risk. Attempting it and succeeding also almost zero risk.

Yes the public should be vigilant - but a serial (in effect professional) fraudsters are effectively left unimpeded to develop and refine their craft. Others are encourgaed - incentivised - to emulate them. That puts the public at a disadvantage.

 

[Scott_F]

Cause and effect ......

They don't deal with it.

It is now so common.​

What they need is a petty crimes unit that actively targets nad makes examples of petty fraudsters. At the moment the crime is low risk - attempting it is almost zero risk. Attempting it and succeeding also almost zero risk.

Yes the public should be vigilant - but a serial (in effect professional) fraudsters are effectively left unimpeded to develop and refine their craft. Others are encourgaed - incentivised - to emulate them. That puts the public at a disadvantage.

This is not just the case with fraud. There are now a great many types of crime that the police no longer routinely attend let alone investigate.

 

[Ted]

[QUOTE="Pontoneer, post: 2692104, member: 42]

She did say that , since I haven’t lost any money it would not be counted as a crime.[/QUOTE]

So if I mugged an old lady, but didn’t manage to get any money off her, it wouldn’t be counted as a crime?
Bloody ridiculous!

 

[Deleted member 6183]

[QUOTE="Pontoneer, post: 2692104, member: 42]

She did say that , since I haven’t lost any money it would not be counted as a crime.

So if I mugged an old lady, but didn’t manage to get any money off her, it wouldn’t be counted as a crime?
Bloody ridiculous![/QUOTE]
Assault is a crime though.

 

[219]

Give me the address in Dubai - it’s only an hour down the road - I’ll pay them a visit!

First Name: Clara
Last Name: Birungi
Address: 24 deira street’ Sabka bus station
Zip code: +971
State: Dubai
Country: United Arab Emirate



Who lives in a bus station - I guess it's a PO box or a left luggage locker

 

[markjay]

I have experienced this - if you didn't lose money, it's not a crime, you can only report it as an 'incident'.

That's one way of massaging crime figures - if you can't reduce crime, re-classify it as non-crime.

A friend had his identity cloned. The perpetrator had an accomplice at the local Royal Mail sorting office.

First he intercepted my friend's bank statements and Vodafone bills.

Then he managed to order from the DVLA a new driving licence in my friend's name, and intercepted that in the post as well.

He them walked into a Vodafone shop, said he lost his phone and simcard and walked off with a new phone that had my friend's phone number.

He then walked in to a local bank branch, showed the driving license, and asked to arrange a large transfer (he new exactly how much money there was in the account).

The staff at the bank became suspicious, because this activity was uncharacteristic for the account, and called my friend's mobile. Which is what the fraudster expected them to do.

What he didn't know, however, was that my friend was actually living abroad for work, and that he gave the bank his overseas mobile number. He told the bank manager that he wasn't even in the country, but by that time the fraudster realised something was wrong and fled.

How many offences did the perpetrator commit so far?

None, according to ActionFraud, because my friend didn't lose any money, it does not count as a crime

Really...?

 

[Petrol Pete]

Had a withdrawal in the 'pending' bit of my online personal account the other month that definitely was not me . The sum was approx. £650 .

Long story short , I was put through to the 'fraud' department where nice lady told me the details were for the holding company that holds Currys PC world.

Once all details were sorted I asked her if she was going to stop the pending payment ? Her answer surprised me. As I had given her my permission for her to hand the details of this incident to the police she was going to allow the money to leave my account and I would instantly be credited the same amount.

This duly happened. All I can think is they are getting near to catching this particular scammer but need an actual crime (or a multitude of crimes) to take place to make any conviction stick. ??

Stopping the transfer would have alerted the scammer maybe ? So it costs the bank £650 to help catch the thief , they can afford it , they just pass the cost back to us anyway.

Not something I have heard of before, but it happened to me.

 

[Steveml63]

First Name: Clara
Last Name: Birungi
Address: 24 deira street’ Sabka bus station
Zip code: +971
State: Dubai
Country: United Arab Emirate



Who lives in a bus station - I guess it's a PO box or a left luggage locker

Hi,
That’s a totally fictitious address in Dubai.
They could not even spell the name of the bus station correctly - it’s Al Sabkha bus station (and its tiny)!

Cheers
Steve

 

[219]

Hi,
That’s a totally fictitious address in Dubai.
They could not even spell the name of the bus station correctly - it’s Al Sabkha bus station (and its tiny)!

Cheers
Steve

Yep , I looked it up on Google Earth , although there is a Deira St directly across the road from what would perhaps be better described as a bus terminus

 

[219]

I have experienced this - if you didn't lose money, it's not a crime, you can only report it as an 'incident'.

That's one way of massaging crime figures - if you can't reduce crime, re-classify it as non-crime.

A friend had his identity cloned. The perpetrator had an accomplice at the local Royal Mail sorting office.

First he intercepted my friend's bank statements and Vodafone bills.

Then he managed to order from the DVLA a new driving licence in my friend's name, and intercepted that in the post as well.

He them walked into a Vodafone shop, said he lost his phone and simcard and walked off with a new phone that had my friend's phone number.

He then walked in to a local bank branch, showed the driving license, and asked to arrange a large transfer (he new exactly how much money there was in the account).

The staff at the bank became suspicious, because this activity was uncharacteristic for the account, and called my friend's mobile. Which is what the fraudster expected them to do.

What he didn't know, however, was that my friend was actually living abroad for work, and that he gave the bank his overseas mobile number. He told the bank manager that he wasn't even in the country, but by that time the fraudster realised something was wrong and fled.

How many offences did the perpetrator commit so far?

None, according to ActionFraud, because my friend didn't lose any money, it does not count as a crime

Really...?

Well , he did fraudulently obtain the mobile phone , which is theft , and the mobile phone company suffered a loss .

He also conspired to interfere with the mail , and received stolen goods , namely the items of mail his accomplice had stolen .

 

[Justintyme]

Don’t know if that is the same as police Scotland cyber crime unit , but we have a police liaison unit here in our building which I’ll pop along to when free .

Puts it on record in case of further trouble .

I would report it too... at least it will be on the record. And I heard that recently 33 scammers in UAE were tracked down and arrested, so every scam that is reported, increases the chance of them being caught.

 

[clk320x]

Wow these scammers are very creative aren’t they. Glad you didn’t fall for it.