Self driving lorries now

[grober]

One can see the advantages of these new "road trains" = effectively "electronically coupled" trucks in situations where they function in the same manner as railways--- big loads - long distance - point A to point B - no stops classic example would be coal from mine to power station. Unfortunately as soon as you deviate from that scenario the picture is less clear. What gave road transport the advantage over rail was you could delivery direct from point A to point "n" where n was effectively anywhere there was a road big enough for a truck. This cut out the loading + unloading + distribution labour costs associated with the restrictions of point A to point B railway transport. Until autonomous vehicles can surmount this logistics barrier onboard self servicing human guidance computers= drivers----- are going to be more economic/practical for some time to come. The vehicle technology may be almost there- the road infrastructure to support it certainly isn't at present.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

You do know that 'testing' preceeds 'implementing', don't you?

The clue is in the word 'testing', in that someone wishes to implement something so is doing a dry run before committing themselves.

My points are quite valid, and that there are many real world issues that need to be considered during this 'testing' phase before 'implementation' comes into effect, otherwise we'll see another 'Thalidomide' effect, where something isn't tested properly before implementation, only for the general public to suffer due to an impulse to implement something too quickly.

I'm not arguing that the technology isn't there, but I am arguing that technology isn't a suitable replacement for a well trained human interpreter of data.

Remember that while machines have algorithms, people have gifts. After all, Pelé is considered one of the greatest footballers in the history of the game. If all men were created equal, we'd all be Pelés.

Apologies if I sounded rude in my original post to you, in hindsight it does look a bit terse, I do get frustrated when surrounded by negative people. Your post was one of a number which reminded me of the Chicken Licken fable.

Testing does precede implementation but implementation does not have to be the next step, the process may need to be reworked and tested again to iron out any issues.

 

[TheFoX]

Apologies if I sounded rude in my original post to you, in hindsight it does look a bit terse, I do get frustrated when surrounded by negative people. Your post was one of a number which reminded me of the Chicken Licken fable.

Testing does precede implementation but implementation does not have to be the next step, the process may need to be reworked and tested again to iron out any issues.

Thanks.

I'm not a negative person, but I do believe that people need proper training and education when dealing with machines. In our modern society, we are inundated with new technology for which there is no proper training. Mobile phones are a classic example of technology where only about 10% of users are fully conversant with how a smart phone works and what it can do.

I grew up with computers and trained as an analyst/programmer back in the days when computers were the preserve of the professional or gifted amateur. Then, all of a sudden, computers became mainstream, which meant that millions of people who know nothing about computers can suddenly buy and use one.

Is this good or bad?

Well, it means that modern technology has enabled millions to benefit from one of mans greatest achievements, but it also means that due to the ignorance of millions of users, botnet attacks on websites are dead easy as there are millions of computers ready to be compromised (if not already).

In other words, it is not the machines that will drive our road trains and self drive vehicles that will be at fault, but the humans who don't behave in a predictable way, or those wishing to take the pish. Gangs of youngsters driving their Corsas will, no doubt, start playing a game with automated road trains just for fun, just as the Happy Slapping craze started when mobile phones could start recording video. It is human nature.

Even with established automation, people still take stupid risks with themselves and others. How many CCTV shows have featured clips of idiots trying to beat the barriers at level crossings.

If you take out the human element from driving, and make ALL road going vehicles self driven, then these machines will be able to accurately predict the action or inaction of the other machines, but when you mix humans, especially Alphas, into the mix, you'll be asking for trouble.

 

[Dryce]

One can see the advantages of these new "road trains" = effectively "electronically coupled" trucks in situations where they function in the same manner as railways--- big loads - long distance - point A to point B - no stops classic example would be coal from mine to power station. Unfortunately as soon as you deviate from that scenario the picture is less clear.

Something like coal still works better on rail. But our rail network is focused more on passengers than freight - which means you can't run path slow freight trains on or main lines.

What gave road transport the advantage over rail was you could delivery direct from point A to point "n" where n was effectively anywhere there was a road big enough for a truck. This cut out the loading + unloading + distribution labour costs associated with the restrictions of point A to point B railway transport. Until autonomous vehicles can surmount this logistics barrier onboard self servicing human guidance computers= drivers----- are going to be more economic/practical for some time to come.

The autonmous vehicle circumvents this perfectly for some businesses.

A lot of stuff in trucks follows trunk routes and branches off.

The autonomous vehicle reduces the manpower required to take a given number of vehicles long a trunk.

So a driver can rtake a HGV to some interchange - eg. just off the M6 at B'ham - and jump out - handing the vehicle over to the marshalling system. Vehicles then travel up the trunk either by themselves or in supervised groups. If being groped they can peel off along the way - and others can join the group. At the interchanges where they drop off a driver can get in and take the vehicle or a small group to a final destination.

The vehicle technology may be almost there- the road infrastructure to support it certainly isn't at present.

For the trunk routes it already is. And Inverness will soon be reachable by DC/Mway from the rest of the country.

 

[zipdip]

Well the reason trucks are used instead of railways is that wonderful con of the Japanese of "just in time" in order to fulfill this "just too late "idea that has done countless damage to british industry trucks have had to be used to supply parts and make deliveries,trains cannot compete with the hub and spoke systems of transport companies,even so these transport companies are not making fortunes,every time a contract comes up,nobody wants to pay for the service,so where do 3 trucks all travelling together fit in,not well in my opinion you would need to use them between hubs,even those hubs do not need 3 truck loads of the same thing and then you have trucks waiting until all 3 are loaded,then what do you do for a return load,as I say this AI trucks will not be used.

 

[Dryce]

Well the reason trucks are used instead of railways is that wonderful con of the Japanese of "just in time" in order to fulfill this "just too late "idea that has done countless damage to british industry

The decline in rail freight predates these changes in industry practice.

There are a number of factors - eg.

HGV sizes increased - back in 1983 the limit increased from 32.5 tonnes to 38. And have increased further since.

The motorway network and dualled road network increased substantially from the 1960s onwards.

There have been some initiatives to increase freight for sectors where JIT isn't an issue - they tend to fail.

 

[TheFoX]

Up our way, the Fens, alot of food transport is done with actual tractors fitted with a fifth wheel to tow a chilled or frozen container. After all, red diesel is a lot cheaper than DERV. Mind you, it is cheating, and causes no end of hold ups with the regular traffic.