Service rip off

[markjay]

4mm is a new one for me... most tyre manufacturers recommend replacing tyres at 3mm, i.e. well before the legal limit of 1.6mm, which does make sense.

But this should be explained to the customer simply and clearly, I.e. just as I wrote it above.

EDIT: same applies to brakes... I expect the dealer to tell me the disc's thickness when new, the current thickness, the minimum thickness, and their recommendations. It's not beyond the mental skills of the average car owner to understand this information.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I've had exactly this and had checked the tread depth before taking the car in for service; I knew the tyres were fine. European limit? I questioned what that was (I had been waiting at the dealership whilst the car was serviced) and was met with waffle and that it was advisory. The service advisor had already kindly costed 4 new tyres for me, which I declined. Measured again at home, fronts 5mm, rears between 4-5mm. Not impressed.

Based upon your description it doesn’t sound like it was articulated very well, but the recommendation to change tyres at 3mm tread depth is a thing.

The legal minimum of 1.6 mm is just that, the legal minimum, by which point performance - especially in wet and cold condition - has dropped right off.

 

[Tuercas viejas]

Guys to understand all this confusion & upselling, you have to look at what's trending in the auto retail market on both sides of the pond:-
So, Read this:-

Dealers gain big in replacement-tire sales

Franchised dealerships have achieved a record share of the replacement tire market, aided by service-lane technology that promotes sales of new tires and alignments. Experts predict dealers' market share will nearly double in coming years.

www.autonews.com

To gain market share some of the big names like Hunter (wheel alignment fame) have developed a quick pass check system to boost & wheel alignment jobs AND TYRES.

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How can you refuse when confronted with the check sheet ????
Tuercas Viejas

 

[Connoisseur]

Interesting subject because 3mm advisory is seen by some as yet another way of desperate glass palaces increasing income, not increasing safety. If we follow the line currently being pushed by Dealers then will we soon hear of 5mm minimum is best etc etc?

This was the (differing) view of Michelin in 2016

www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/miscellaneous/2016-10/qa-replacing-tyres-at-3mm-tread-an-absolute-waste-says-michelin-director/

https://www.fleetservicegb.co.uk/michelin-rejects-3mm-legal-tyre-tread-depth-call-arguing-1-6mm-is-safe/

 

[wongl]

Interesting, I seem to remember that 3mm is the legal minimum tyre thread for Winter tyres in most of the EU, with some pushing for 4mm. But this is for winter tyres only (as some countries such as Finland drive on compacted snow during winter months).

 

[tonysmb]

Based upon your description it doesn’t sound like it was articulated very well, but the recommendation to change tyres at 3mm tread depth is a thing.

The legal minimum of 1.6 mm is just that, the legal minimum, by which point performance - especially in wet and cold condition - has dropped right off.

I appreciate that; it was the way it was 'advised' which irritated me, ie 'close to the European limit' which could easily be interpreted by some customers who might not be up to speed on the regns, that it was a legal requirement, without the words 'legal requirement' actually being used. I might be cynical but I think it was articulated exactly as the advisor intended; I generally replace at about 3mm or thereabouts in any event but certainly not at 5mm.

The reality is that most on here would probably not be persuaded by such 'upselling' but I know many who would be concerned that their tyres were near end-of-life.

 

[chic0821]

Guys to understand all this confusion & upselling, you have to look at what's trending in the auto retail market on both sides of the pond:-
So, Read this:-

Dealers gain big in replacement-tire sales

Franchised dealerships have achieved a record share of the replacement tire market, aided by service-lane technology that promotes sales of new tires and alignments. Experts predict dealers' market share will nearly double in coming years.

www.autonews.com

To gain market share some of the big names like Hunter (wheel alignment fame) have developed a quick pass check system to boost & wheel alignment jobs AND TYRES.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

How can you refuse when confronted with the check sheet ????
Tuercas Viejas

Pretty sure you would not get a free check in the UK. Good idea offering free check as we probably wait until something happens, ie car pulling or uneven tyre wear, then it costs a lot more.

 

[Connoisseur]

Interesting, I seem to remember that 3mm is the legal minimum tyre thread for Winter tyres in most of the EU, with some pushing for 4mm. But this is for winter tyres only (as some countries such as Finland drive on compacted snow during winter months).

A few (v. few) do set 4mm minimum Dow winter tyres only.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Pretty sure you would not get a free check in the UK. Good idea offering free check as we probably wait until something happens, ie car pulling or uneven tyre wear, then it costs a lot more.

Yes they do exist, but they’re expensive. Pirelli have them in their flagship Pirelli Performamce Centre in Burton upon Trent.

I was talking to a very large car tyre distributor and they said they looked into them for their own workshop but they couldn’t get the business case to stack up.

 

[MEMERC7]

I'd say it's not an upsell if the work is necessary; it is if it isn't.

Chap came to collect my wife's Honda jazz for its main dealer annual service & MOT. She had already agreed the total price on the phone, subject to anything untoward that would need doing. I answered the door to him & was asked if I'd like to have the engine & gearbox ( it's an automatic) flushed if so the cost would be £25. Quietly chuckling to myself at this pathetic attempt to upsell I declined. Later I reflected that its 2021 not 1951 which is when I remember my dad doing his own servicing & flushing the engine before adding new oil as I did with 1960's classic cars. So was I & my wife targets for being conned?
As for my own string of new & nearly new cars, once out of warranty I give main dealers a wide berth & use marque independent specialists & despite the bullshit put out by car salespersons p/ex values have never been affected. Once Covid-19 restrictions are lifted flash car showrooms will be used once again for the free coffee, biscuits & toilets. With a Mercedes key ring in hand & sometimes wearing a Mercedes logo cap it irritates the staff no end.

 

[markjay]

Kwik Fit used to offer free checks, definitely for tracking, I think also for brakes.

 

[Tuercas viejas]

OK guys, reading the thread posts I have quickly & not surprisingly ascertained that the UK Auto Repair business is still firmly stuck in the past.
I remember doing business model studies when doing an A.M.I.M. I course over two years in the late 1970's ..
It was a culmination of a previous series of evening lectures I received as an auto mech/tech grad student in Gloucester.
The lectures were held a new shop at the time, recently & constructed in Cheltenham, which eventually became a Lex Group business doing B/L/product lines . (Lex Group!!! Are they still around !)

The subject of the seminar & lectures was The UK Auto Repair /Retail industry at the turn the 20th century & Beyond .
Lecturer was a Harvard business professor, which prompted mate of mine who worked for Lex Tillotson Commercials to state "What can the effing Yanks teach us about fixing cars? "
Well as it turned out a lot.
Going to the dustbin was the old nurtured idea that we would be all things to all men!
Model/brand specialization would be the order of the day .
That forecast was received with total incredulity .

Cost centres. ,No longer would the major revenue shop activities support sales! They would be responsible for their own cost centres.
New accounting & past ideas of cardex to that of microfiche (Now that sounds really old fashioned nowadays)

Well in fact .looking back all of these outlandish predictions have come to pass in 40 to 50 years.
We specialize and we adapt to continuing changing business models.

If you are interested read this month viewpoint article appearing in this month's magazine Shop Owner:-

Shop Owner

Shop Owner - SHOPOWNER MARCH 2024

digital.shopownermag.com

Enjoy reading this from the other side of the counter and look for Is menu pricing etc etc
Tuercas viejas

 

[millc63]

Look at my town

Having looked at your town I can confirm that Dealership is not particularly good in my opinion. I used them to fix an AC problem on my car, and they literally did not have a clue and tried to charge me for work that didn't even solve the problem, needless to say I did not pay them for that. The actual fault (when eventually found) was covered under the MB warranty.

I now use MB Brooklands and have had very good experiences with them, aside from they keep washing my car even when told not to!!

 

[Jigglyjohnson]

I would like to add a few comments on this. I for a start am a qualified main dealer mb tech of more than 20 years and any car I have ever serviced have been done to the correct schedule including oil changes !!
I cannot speak for all mechanics here but some dealers suck the oil from the cars and some drain from the sump these 2 methods are both approved. I have in the past done a few oil sample of vehicle been serviced and the customers has said the oil was black and hasn't been changed. We have sent the oil sample off and it has come back stating the oil was changed.. the only true way to get the oil as clean as a new car oil would be to drain the oil when it is extremely hot and the flush the engine before filling with new fresh oil. If you are concerned with the level of service you have experienced I would go back to the dealer and explain your concerns. Ask them to do a oil check and then you will have a definitive answer. But i think it's a bit unfair to tar every dealer with the same brush

 

[Fastcar155]

Hi , I was trying to give a few hints on previous threads but I have worked in the motor trade for a greater part of my employed years.

It would make interesting reading if a franchised dealer was to start threads about tyre of customers they have to deal with.

I was a service receptionist for a couple of years and tried to help customers sort out the issues of

4mm is a new one for me... most tyre manufacturers recommend replacing tyres at 3mm, i.e. well before the legal limit of 1.6mm, which does make sense.

But this should be explained to the customer simply and clearly, I.e. just as I wrote it above.

EDIT: same applies to brakes... I expect the dealer to tell me the disc's thickness when new, the current thickness, the minimum thickness, and their recommendations. It's not beyond the mental skills of the average car owner to understand this information.

Hi , you are quite correct in this case re 4mm.Sorry , what the stating the under 4mm tyre performance drops off.

 

[Tuercas viejas]

Oh customers and tires (tyres)
I never tire of it!!!

In spite of recent tire upsell trends & trade recommendations, I /We tend to skirt the issue at service intervals, merely bringing customer attention to tire condition & the need for "new rubber" when appropriate .
Its a bit like playing Monopoly really, instead of Going to Jail, its Go to Tyre store! (Usually Discount Tires or Costco)
Its easy to spout minimum tread depth and legality in millimeters (which few over here better understand as M&M's) , but kind-a get it in "tirtytoots" of an inch if mentioned.

That stated weather/road surface conditions can render even a 2/3rds worn tyre useless in some conditions. So it's above the legal limit meets all recommended parameters @ 4mm but it's useless in some road & weather conditions.
Like packed ice/snow, or a sudden tornadic storms on a smooth concrete 3 lane motorway that goes from "summer dry" to almost no visibility & pi$$ing down in seconds, and the car starts aquaplaning at 80 mph!
Whereas that same car at the other end of that "same" storm in another state using granite surface motorway rolled dressing is fine . (thinking of Minnesota concrete versus North or South Dakota granite over hot rolled aggregate asphalt mix.
So its incumbent on the driver to drive according to the conditions.

Which bring me to the question of tyre rotation and the mini quiz being a Quiz Inquizitor Michael Miles type (showing mi age 'er )
What is recommended , to have the least worn tyres on the back or front of the vehicle ?
or
You are installing TWO new tyres in combination with two original part worn tyres on the car . Which "axle set" gets the new 'uns front or rear?

Now if you want a customer argument or pushback as a retailer /installer/ repair shop answer that!!!
Tuercas viejas

 

[190]

What is recommended , to have the least worn tyres on the back or front of the vehicle ?
or
You are installing TWO new tyres in combination with two original part worn tyres on the car . Which "axle set" gets the new 'uns front or rear?

My understanding is that it's always best tyres on the rear as understeer is safer than oversteer.

 

[Tuercas viejas]

OK

My understanding is that it's always best tyres on the rear as understeer is safer than oversteer.

Want a pub or service reception argument?


So see this from The Man from Uncle uuuhh No ! Nokian .

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Versus this Car Expert

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Tuercas viejas

 

[Petrol Pete]

On front wheel drive cars I have always put the new tyre on the rear , the whole 'rotating' tyres is simply not possible anymore on may modern cars because of directional tyres being fitted and many cars (whether they need it or not) having different sizes front and rear.

I do know that outside of people like us on car forums many drivers just see 4 black hoops on there car that are a pain in the a$$ because they have to buy new ones now and again.

 

[Connoisseur]

So all three of our cars have bigger rear tyres than on the front. Saves an argument at least