Should I avoid old mercs with rust but bubbling?

[Psilonaught]

I'm fortunate enough to own an e63 AMG however I fancy buying an old cruiser as a second car. I have my eyes on the W124, C140 and W114. I also have a VERY strong urge to buy a 840ci too but thats for another day!

Anyway my question is about rust. I've read people saying that if the arches are showing corrosion then rot has gotten into the metal and it is impossible to cure. Is that true?

A lot of the c140 I have seen has some bubbling somewhere. I was going to get my village bodyshop to sand down and repaint, but will it come back?

I down a pair or garages so it will never see rain.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Visible rust on a W114 almost certainly indicates the entire structure will be rotten. On W124s and W140s it requires a repair panel to cure. However, both conceal structural rust very well.

The answer though - sanding down will never remove panel rot. You need new metal.

 

[brucemillar]

The rust you can see is usually not an issue. It is things like the rear sub frame mountings, that can rot out hidden from view and really well hidden from view. A good steep prodder is required and a seller that will be happy to let you have a poke around. Or buy from another forum member who has provenance and is happy to talk to you about the car and their ownership. They are out there. But any 124 will be around 20+ years old now, so that gives you a good starting point.

Sub Frame and SHock Moubts along wth engine and gearbox mounts are a good starting point to check. Do not rely on MOT history.

 

[Psilonaught]

OK thanks. When you say new metal do you mean am entirely new wing? There is a sliver cl500 on EBay with very small amounts of bubbling on the arches, surely both wings wouldn't need replacing?

 

[Psilonaught]

Grr stupid phone

 

[Charles Morgan]

It will depend upon the extent. If localised, cutting out the rot and welding in of a repair piece is good enough. Bubbling could either be a small issue or a large issue that has been well hidden.

 

[Charles Morgan]

To be honest though, rust is the least of the issues to consider when buying any of these.

 

[brucemillar]

OK thanks. When you say new metal do you mean am entirely new wing? There is a sliver cl500 on EBay with very small amounts of bubbling on the arches, surely both wings wouldn't need replacing?

You really need to go there and take a look and have a prod around. Photos hide too much stuff. Bubbling can be paint lifting to holes appearing.


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[MikeInWimbledon]

The guys above have made some great points already, as always. Can I highlight four points:

1) These are all strong, solid cars which last a long time with maintenance, what kills them is lack of (expensive) maintenance. As Charles said, rust isn't your biggest enemy. Electronics, mechanics, and suspension will normally get you before bodywork - unless you're living by the Ocean or the sea.

2) Think of the W114 as essentially a 50 year old car from the days before modern rust protection. It will have substantial rust issues relative to the others. A W124 is a true classic at 30+ years old but may have had normal owners, who left it outside and used it hard, but it's a far safer choice than the W114. And finally the C140 at 25+ years old will not only be better built, it will, generally, have been better maintained and stored, especially if out of London. But these are all generalisations - each car needs to be examined for what it is. (While I'm here, remember they will drive completely differently - a W114 is a very nice 1960's design / 1970's build car, but standards were very different back then)

3) Rust on panels can usually be cut out to be fixed by a bodyshop, not a garage. But rust on panels is more important os a visible indicator of rust on structural members below. It's rust on structural underpinnings which is important - that's what will harm the car in the long term.

4) Find someone with mechanical interest to check cars with you, know that the cheapest cars will be the most expensive to run, and that cars rarely sell for their advertised price at this age - they're always negotiable, because they're really hard to sell - especially in Winter.

 

[brucemillar]

To give an indication: A common issue seen on 124 Estates is bubbling at the bottom of the 'Ç'Pillars. With the windows fully removed you will start to get a good view on just how bad that rust has managed to get. If the wing is rotten (it usually is if it has bubbled) then stick a torh inside and you will see that the rust may well have spread to the inner structural 'C' member. That is huge job and can make the car write off for those without deep pockets.

Charles Morgan has probably seen more than most on the 114 - 124 variety so is a great Oracle for real world info. Don't be frightened off by a few posts on here though. There are really great cars out there, that have been well maintained or restored. My 30 year old 4-Matic Estate had the "usual" surface rust on the rear wings that required new metal panels filleting in. But the floor was 100% solid, having been factory under-sealed and looked after. It was also early enough to have escaped the dreaded bio de-gradeable wiring loom issues.

 

[grober]

Remember also that Mercedes build quality took a definite dip during the Jürgen Erich Schrempp era circa May 1995 to December 2005 with dodgy body steel and flakey electrical insulation being only two of the issues of his "never mind the quality feel the width" approach to building cars.

 

[Charles Morgan]

I will modify my statement about rust being the least issue - on a W114 it is probably the most important issue.

 

[brucemillar]

Thinking of buying a W124? Here's what to look for | Retro Rides

 

[chrisk2010]

OK thanks. When you say new metal do you mean am entirely new wing? There is a sliver cl500 on EBay with very small amounts of bubbling on the arches, surely both wings wouldn't need replacing?

I love the W124 i worked with an engineer that owned one several years ago and it was a beautiful car to this day i wish i had brought it from him.
With regards to bubbling in the wings i had this on my W202 and after the first three times ( approx two yearly ) i sanded down treated smoothed painted the arches i leanered my lesson, got fed up and brought replacement wings from ECP for around 30 or 40 quid at the time it think and painted them. Even with slight bubbling you will never completly get rid of it without replacing the metal that is rusting.

 

[grober]

With older cars it often it pays to examine the seller of the car as much as the car itself as assessment of the former is often a good guide to the latter.

 

[zipdip]

I hope you are not suggesting I look up the owners exhaust pipe at close quarters

With older cars it often it pays to examine the seller of the car as much as the car itself as assessment of the former is often a good guide to the latter.

 

[Marku]

Remember the old adage that there is nothing so expensive as a cheap Mercedes. Why not go for a W116 the first S class. Interest is growing in them and the prices are rising and are being quoted at £10K to £60K. A range of engines from 280 to 6.9 and body styles from standard to long and even armoured. There are several buyers guides published with possible problems. Rust usually confined to the bulkhead and wings the W116 was coated underneath against rust and usually has worn well. There were no problems with mine underneath other than the sills. Mercedes themselves has restored them and sells them through the Home - Mercedes-Benz Classic site which features one pictured between a 190SL and a 560.

 

[Psilonaught]

Look at that beauty! I think I have my heart set on one of these. CL600 would be nice.

I agree on spending more, I would want to pay over £7k and get good example.

[/QUOTE]

 

[alabbasi]

Remember the old adage that there is nothing so expensive as a cheap Mercedes.

Remember the old adage that there is nothing so cheaper than as a cheap Mercedes Benz owner. There's no such thing as a rust free car in the UK. Too much salt on the roads, too many knooks and crannies. It just depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking for a nice keeper, find a clean low owner car that has low miles, lived in a garage and has been maintained. If you're just looking to dabble, you should be able to find a W124 you can drive for a while for not a lot of money. Those cars can be thrown away when you get bored and in which case, I would not be too worried about rust as long as it can pass an MOT.

 

[GP801]

We have had our 124 for 7 years. Its now on around 165,000. The body and underside are rust free - as far as we can tell. There was cosmetic rust around the jacking points when purchased but that was sorted and has not returned. It was Dinitrol treated which appears to have done its job. However despite being properly maintained by PCS Horndean its had virtually all the known 124 mechanical issues. Never let us down but its always a good earner each year for Ollie and his team. I reckon on average 1500 per annum for service and repairs - some years less, some a lot more!