Should I change my 124s for w210 on safety grounds

[grober]

I would say W210 would be safer.

check out this old volvo vs renault modus test on 5th gear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O11Rr3wuDeE

While I think the 5 gear piece on the comparison between a 3 year old Renault Modus costing £4,500 and a 15year old Volvo costing £695 was interesting in highlighting how much car crash safety has progressed over the years the disparity in price and age of the cars involved made the test fairly irrelevant to real world motoring. To fair they should have tested the Volvo against a Renault of the same age---oh sorry---- they are all in landfill sites having rotted away years ago! OR put the Modus up against a Volvo you could buy today for £4,500.--say a late 90,s S70 saloon or V70 estate.
It was a good piece of television journalism but was flawed by skewing the comparison too much to be of real value IMHO.

 

[Rose Chap]

I disagree Grober.

Drivers of different value cars share the same roadspace and can and will smash into each other.

The 5th Gear video highlights that drivers of cars once considered among the most safe in the world offer considerably less protection than their size/weight/reputation might suggest.

 

[television]

I have had 3 things dropped off this morning to my place.

1 an early Volvo740
2 an early Espace.
3 an early landrover

So these thins are still out there driving around and mixed up with all the newer cars

 

[grober]

All I was trying to point out was that in general £4,500 will buy you more safety than £695.

 

[grober]

There is an interesting american article here about how different safety testing organisations can come up with quite different safety ratings for the same car.
http://www.safecarguide.com/exp/euroncap/euroncap.htm
In addition they do provide safety rating "compilations" for older cars.
here's one for mercedes.
http://www.safecarguide.com/mak/mercedes_benz/idx.htm
for renault
http://www.safecarguide.com/mak/renault/idx.htm
and volvo
http://www.safecarguide.com/mak/volvo/idx.htm

 

[Will]

I think Grober's post is fair - you've got to compare apples with apples to an extent. The Volvo was probably one of the safer cars of it's generation, and still is compared to many £600 odd cars.

The Renault should very well be safer, considering a) how much newer it is and b) how much it costs to buy today.

Does this make the Renault the very safest car that £4500 can buy you? And does it really show that the Volvo is a bad car in it's price bracket?

Will

 

[television]

I too think that Grobers post is fair

 

[mattc]

I would say W210 would be safer.

check out this old volvo vs renault modus test on 5th gear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O11Rr3wuDeE

So by the looks of that test, drivers of older cars should weld a piece of high tensile steel to the front and rear of their cars (bull bars anyone ) seeing as new cars have effectively been designed with a battering ram (just hidden behind the bumper) to make them 'safer'

 

[television]

So by the looks of that test, drivers of older cars should weld a piece of high tensile steel to the front and rear of their cars (bull bars anyone ) seeing as new cars have effectively been designed with a battering ram (just hidden behind the bumper) to make them 'safer'

Sadly that will do nothing other than increase the risk of injury to your self,, take a look at the Volvo damage

 

[mattc]

Sadly that will do nothing other than increase the risk of injury to your self,, take a look at the Volvo damage

Was trying to be tongue in cheek Malcolm - not really advocating that we all put ourselves in tanks to protect ourselves.

On a serious note why would the idea of a piece of steel across the width of the bumper not help the energy dispersion across the whole front rather than it being localised on the offside (where they collided)? Just driven across France and half the UK today so brain is jelly at moment

 

[barryj]

If saftey is the only concern then you may have to bite the bullet and move away from MB, for your money another marque could offer you a more modern car with greater saftey.

 

[philiggy]

Thanks for all the comments guys,
Having looked at this logicaly (I think) the way forward is for me to make the 124 as safe as possible by fitting rear headrests and perhaps a pass air bag, other wise I will be forever chasing the "safest" car

Of course I may change my mind when I see how much it will cost!

Phil

 

[LastMinute]

Could you just change the parcel shelf for one with headrests, and rig up a simple release device instead of messing about with all the electric and vacuum parts of the normal mechanism?

(Just an idea. Don't know how easy it is "just" to change the parcel shelf...)

 

[andy_k]

surely it's easier to fit rear headrests in the estate?

Andy

 

[aka$h]

Thanks for all the comments guys,
Having looked at this logicaly (I think) the way forward is for me to make the 124 as safe as possible by fitting rear headrests and perhaps a pass air bag, other wise I will be forever chasing the "safest" car

Of course I may change my mind when I see how much it will cost!

Phil

I did explore the idea of retro fitting the pass air bag on my e320c. This is not as easy as it sounds. The cross member behind the dash is different, as well as the airbag module behind the ashtray, and the wiring loom. In addition you also need to change the panel below the glovebox.

With regard to the headrests, Id try to get the rear shelf and the head rest locking mechanisms from a breaker. As long as you dont intend to fold them, you dont need to worry about electrical connectors etc.

Hope this helps.

 

[Birdman]

If you do decide to get the W210 I suggest you go for the facelift model (post '99) since it has curtain airbags and a higher level of protection for the front passenger and driver's legs.

Four NCAP stars were awarded to the W210 only after MB persuaded NCAP that the new facelift model had been strengthened in the leg area criticised by NCAP on the existing model, which they had awarded three stars to, and that future W210 facelift cars would deserve the higher rating.

The NCAP four stars therefore don't actually apply to the pre-facelift car (in those days four stars was the top rating).

That said, I guess it's better to do something about improving passenger protection in an old car than do nothing.

 

[television]

The NCAP four stars therefore don't actually apply to the pre-facelift car (in those days four stars was the top rating).

I completely forgot that you should never compare the old ratings with the new,, gut read each one on their own merits

Thank you Birdman

 

[BTB 500]

Again, I would query the benefit in fitting a standard dash-mounted passenger airbag. If the passenger is wearing a seatbelt they will not get anywhere near the dashboard in a shunt ... or am I missing something?

Plus of course you then can't put a child seat in the front.

 

[hawk20]

Again, I would query the benefit in fitting a standard dash-mounted passenger airbag. If the passenger is wearing a seatbelt they will not get anywhere near the dashboard in a shunt ... or am I missing something?
.

According to MB the belt and the bag are designed to work together. Belt is a very narrow restraint. Bag gives a big wide area to restrain you. Question to ask is: If you jumped off a building would you rather land on a bag or a strap. The strap does not restain the head at all (hence whiplash etc); the bag does.

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

Not relevant to the discussion, but I just wanted to remark on the value of the NCAP testing.

At the time of their introduction, the NCAP tests (which are voluntary, not compulsory for car manufacturers) were heavily criticised as a political interference in motoring matters. Yet they have developed into a widely trusted method of selecting a safer car, as they are far better related to real world collisions than the less onerous statutory tests that all cars must still pass.

NCAP showed up some really bad designs, such as the Vauxhall/Opel Zafira that allegedly failed badly, getting no NCAP stars. The result? The NCAP tests are voluntary so Vauxhall/Opel opted not to quote the NCAP rating of zero. But they went away to do a significant re-design of the body structure and tested the new design, only for it to get either zero or one star (I cannot recall which) so they gave up, and waited for the introduction of the new Zafira which is much safer.

(All this information is gleaned from magazine and newspaper articles based on leaks, so may not be 100% precise.)

May I put in a good word for the EU Commissioner who was then responsible for transport, and who worked very hard indeed to have the NCAP system put in place against tremendous opposition? It was none other than Neil (now Lord) Kinnock.