Should winter tyres be mandatory in the UK ?

[Burger]

Oh for... I didn't suggest a ban of anything, I'm merely trying to explain that winter tyres aren't some magical God send that make you super safe in Winter and especially not all the conditions some are claiming. Heck if they're as good as some are suggesting then summer, 2 season, 3 season, all weather, all season etc. tyres provide no advantage at all... Let's ban them and make winter tyres compulsory all year round

 

[rf065]

Until then open your minds and imagine for a moment that perhaps the advertising and promotional videos put out by those with an interest in selling tyres might just be as true and factual as all other advertising

Regards,

Thanks, that explains how my CLK on winter tyres is parked on my own driveway every night after work in the recent extreme weather in central Scotland, when my neighbours rear wheel drive cars are left at the entrance to the estate or the main road itself and can only reach their own driveways if another neighbour with a Land Rover tows them in. Winter tyres must have a placebo effect that defeats nature, brilliant!

Russ

 

[Burger]

Thanks, that explains how my CLK on winter tyres is parked on my own driveway every night after work in the recent extreme weather in central Scotland, when my neighbours rear wheel drive cars are left at the entrance to the estate or the main road itself and can only reach their own driveways if another neighbour with a Land Rover tows them in. Winter tyres must have a placebo effect that defeats nature, brilliant!

Russ

You're being ridiculous! That's one sentence of one post taken completely out of context. Pointless.

 

[rf065]

You're being ridiculous! That's one sentence of one post taken completely out of context. Pointless.

The difference is, I've used them for the last 3 winters which have all been severe and I know they do as the tyre manufacturers claim. My experience of winter tyres bears no relation the picture you are painting of them.

Russ

 

[grober]

Graeme - given transport matters are presumably devolved (forgive me if I am wrong), surely in Scotland where these issues are a matter of life and death for remote communities, it is worth lobbying your MSPs?

I think you are correct Charles but unfortunately I don't think revenue from vehicle excise duty is. The other problem would lie with cross border traffic and its possibly unreasonable to expect hauliers primarily engaged in commerce in southern Britain to " retyre" for conditions rarely experienced there?
Personally I don't think its outwith the large tyre companies R and D departments to start making all weather tyres more appropriate to current British climatic conditions starting with a rubber mix that retains flexibility at lower temperatures. This might be usefully incorporated using a suitable British Standard for tyre manufacture https://ecommittees.bsi-global.com/...?livelinkDataID=987082&XMLQUERY_commid=987082

It could be bit like the oil companies modifying their diesel fuel for winter conditions- the majority of motorists will remain in blissfull ignorance of something done on the quiet for their benefit.

 

[Apial]

When you've driven as many miles as I have on winter tyres in Germany, Romania, Bulgaria, Belgium, Austria, Switzerland and the Czech Republic to name just a few, in their winters, on all surfaces ranging from bone dry to solid ice and when you've listened as I have to the good and bad points of winter tyres from drivers in said countries (not the advertising hype) but real experience, then you can tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.


Regards,

Well you did ask me to, "You don't know what you are talking about!"

High silica compound tyres with sipes do significantly grip on compacted hard snow to the point of exceeding the Highway code quoted stopping distance from 30mph on a DRY road. How do I know? Because I did it!

Either I am a highly skilled driver and can make my car do the impossible, or just maybe Ice and Snow tyres are named that for a good reason.

 

[Sp!ke]

Actually Burger I think you are mostly talking flurble here with regards to winter tyres.

You've a lot to learn on the subject despite your claims to the contrary.

V cut indeed.

You clearly know nothing. Moving on now me thinks - no point in debating with someone so wrong yet so headstrong.

 

[Burger]

The difference is, I've used them for the last 3 winters which have all been severe and I know they do as the tyre manufacturers claim. My experience of winter tyres bears no relation the picture you are painting of them.

Russ

You're right, that's a wild difference to my experience, but you'd have to read everything I've written in this thread, not cherry pick isolated sentences to argue on, to understand how.

Personal experience is the best knowledge of all. I hope you don't find out the hard way where winter tyres don't live up to the hype.

Regards,

 

[brandwooddixon]

Have a look here to see a comparison between cold weather/winter tyres and summer ones.

Tyre Test | Total Tyre Guide | Products | Auto Express

 

[Burger]

Actually Burger I think you are mostly talking flurble here with regards to winter tyres.

You've a lot to learn on the subject despite your claims to the contrary.

V cut indeed.

You clearly know nothing. Moving on now me thinks - no point in debating with someone so clearly wrong yet so headstrong.

Nice!

Jump in with a personally offensive post and then make your get out. Yep, that's really nice. You're right though, there's no point debating with people who have closed minds.

 

[markjay]

Going back to the original title of this thread... which wasn't whether winter tyres work or not, but whether they should be mandatory in the UK.

According to the AA, this is the situation in Germany:

'Germany has recently (4 December 2010) introduced new regulations requiring all passenger cars and motorbikes including vehicles from foreign countries to be fitted with winter tyres or all season tyres on all axles when conditions are wintery. Winter tyres (or 'all season' tyres) should bear the mark M&S or the snowflake symbol on the side wall. '

I see no earthly reason why we, with our generally milder weather, should be more extreme than Germany.

In fact, the only country in the whole of Europe that has winter tyres compulsory during winter month - regardless of the road condition - is Sweden.

At best - we should be following the German, Austrian, and Swiss examples and make it mandatory to use winter tyres only when actually driving in adverse weather conditions, but definitely not impose them on all vehicles throughout the winter months - including garaged ones!

 

[Pottsy]

... where many other tyre types, designed for other specific purposes, will completely out perform them. Wet surfaces being one.

Anyway, yes, I'll let you know what we find.

Burger,

My experience is that my winter tyres are slightly better in cold and wet conditions than my summer tyres are.

However, an independent tyre test, using rails, shows that some winter tyres are fractionally better and some are fractionally worse. But in reality, the difference is next to nowt (and certainly making "completely out perform them" quite incorrect and misleading).

Wet Braking | Total Tyre Guide | Products | Auto Express

Of course, winter tyres are not as good in the dry. But dry performance is still very good, allowing you to enjoy the life saving slush/snow performance when you need it.

Quote from the same article about snow braking:

Top stopper was Goodyear’s UltraGrip 7+, which was the only tyre to dip below the 18-metre mark. There was little to choose between the Continental and Goodyear’s sister brand Dunlop, which took half a metre more.

The Vredestein model needed another metre, stopping in 19.5 metres. There was nothing between the Pirelli and Finnish tyre specialist Nokian, which required just over 20 metres. Less than five metres behind the winner was the all-season Vredestein.

And the summer tyre most of us will be using this winter? It needed 43.14 metres! That’s around six car lengths further than the winning Goodyear. It was still doing close to 20mph when the UltraGrip had stopped. And we only started braking from 25mph!
​

I have to drive to work 160 miles round trip. I cannot work from home, and if I don't turn up on time then many hundreds of people are seriously inconvenienced and I could lose my job. Winter tyres are a must for me.

​

 

[moonloops]

More accidents? Absolutely. Firstly through worse performance of the tyres on non sleet/snow surfaces and secondly because of the false sense of security they'd give to bad drivers.

Burger

Perhaps then we should ALL 4 wheel drive cars too because they have the same effect on the average lunatic. Certainly in the south anyway!

remove drivers airbag from steering wheel and replace with a metal spike. This should also slow people down

 

[fuzzer]

Scottish Government: Web page currently unavailable.

 

[markjay]

​

There's a strange reflection on your bumper of a crouching man

 

[grober]

Review to examine lorry accidents

10/12/2010

A review of problems experienced with jack-knifed articulated heavy goods vehicles during the freezing weather conditions is being undertaken together with the industry, First Minister Alex Salmond announced today.

New figures show there have been 108 incidents involving HGVs - 63 of which involved jack-knifed lorries during the worst of the recent weather.

The Scottish Government has been working closely with the Road Haulage Association and Freight Transport Association, who have agreed to survey members to gather more information about jack-knifing incidents, such as load, speed and perceived cause.

With the possibility of such severe winters becoming more commonplace, an international study will also be undertaken into the use and effectiveness of winter tyres; compulsory in at least eight European countries for at least part of the winter season.
The general relaxation of enforcement for HGV drivers' hours throughout Scotland has been an important part of getting Scotland moving in recent days and following discussion with fuel distributors and others the Scottish Government has today secured from the UK Department for Transport an extension for a further four days from tomorrow evening, to be reviewed thereafter, to ensure that deliveries can continue to get through.
First Minister Alex Salmond said: "We continue to work round-the-clock with key agencies to ensure that disruption is minimised and critical services maintained. The on-going thaw provides a window of opportunity to get Scotland moving fully again following the severe weather that has challenged so many people across the country.
The FM added: "As we work to keep Scotland moving throughout this winter, we are working with key agencies to ensure that we are prepared for future years, particularly if the unprecedented weather conditions experienced in recent days are to become more common-place.
"We have been in contact with the key haulage industry bodies and they have been working hard to support their members and keep Scotland moving in this difficult time.

"HGV drivers are the part of the lifeblood of our transport network and they are working hard to get goods to supermarkets and vital fuel supplies across the country. Jack knifing incidents, caused by sudden braking, pose not only a danger to those involved, but also cause further disruption and delays on the roads and wider cost to our economy.

"I'm pleased that the two main industry bodies have agreed to conduct a survey of members to examine the jack-knife incidents and what factors may have contributed - in an effort to better understand and therefore mitigate the causes of such accidents. At the same time, we will commission a cost benefit study of the use of winter tyres, looking at the practice in countries which have greater experience of the extreme weather that we've endured in the last fortnight."

an excerpt from the link above.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Full marks to the Scottish Government for this.

 

[pipmk]

I think they should be with an annual inspection to make sure they are fitted to the car with big fines and points to those found without. The country would have been kept moving had everyone had winter tyres on. I know this for a fact!

Would get rid of a lot of the heaps off the road! i dispair at how little time and money people spend on tyres for their car. Really annoys me.

Ok, you know it as a fact. Where is your evidence?
When 4 wheel drive vehicles fitted with the proper tyres were finding
it impassable do tell how winter tyres would have helped.
Opinion dressed up as fact again!

 

[markjay]

Full marks to the Scottish Government for this.

Indeed.

It is one thing to blame the total snow-paralysis of the transport network in England and Wales on ROI - the usual argument made by the government is that, unlike the Swiss or French that do not seem to be seriously affected by snow, here there is no economical sense is spending money on events that only occur a few days a year.

However, Scotland weather is much more akin to some of our European neighbours and the Scots are 100% right in making (safe) transport during snow a priority.

 

[Pottsy]

There's a strange reflection on your bumper of a crouching man

Thank god it was one of those clothed moments...

Ok, you know it as a fact. Where is your evidence?
When 4 wheel drive vehicles fitted with the proper tyres were finding
it impassable do tell how winter tyres would have helped.
Opinion dressed up as fact again!

Whatever vehicle you have, it will be better with all-seasons than summer tyres, and better again with winters (in snow/slush).

Just because you decide that it's "good enough" with summer tyres or (in this case) it's no use to any vehicle because the snow is too thick, doesn't negate the above fact.

Interestingly, so long as the snow is not deep enough to turn the car into a snow plough, our RWD E220 CDI auto with winter tyres is significantly better than our 4WD Honda CR-V with all-season (M+S) tyres.

I don't think that winter tyres should be mandatory, because it seriously disadvantages those who live in Eastbourne who don't have to go out on their 3 mile potter if it's snowing outside. But if you are a truck or car and you crash or block a road because of the fitting of equipment not suitable for the conditions, then you should be heavily penalised. This will also please the "skilled" drivers who can coax their summer tyre clad car up a steep snowy incline....