Should winter tyres be mandatory in the UK ?

Should winter tyres be mandatory ?

  • Yes

    Votes: 41 39.8%
  • No

    Votes: 62 60.2%

  • Total voters
    103
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Ok, you know it as a fact. Where is your evidence?
When 4 wheel drive vehicles fitted with the proper tyres were finding
it impassable do tell how winter tyres would have helped.
Opinion dressed up as fact again!

The whole central belt was gridlocked due to jacknifed lorries across both lanes of the M8, M74 & M80, as well as HGV's which had no traction to climb hills leaving all roads blocked. That is why the roads were impassable. If everyone had winter tyres there would not have been any problem. I was stuck on the A725 for 15 hours, not because my winter tyres could not cope, but because the roads were blocked by vehicles on summer tyres with no grip strewn across every lane.

Russ
 
The whole central belt was gridlocked due to jacknifed lorries across both lanes of the M8, M74 & M80, as well as HGV's which had no traction to climb hills leaving all roads blocked. That is why the roads were impassable. If everyone had winter tyres there would not have been any problem. I was stuck on the A725 for 15 hours, not because my winter tyres could not cope, but because the roads were blocked by vehicles on summer tyres with no grip strewn across every lane.

Russ

This is not evidence, it's heresay. Where is the evidence that lorries with winter tyres would have coped? How do you know all holdups were due to lorries, you don't. You cannot know that your tyres would have coped futher up the road, you merely believe they would. Opinion is fine as is experience but it is not evidence.
 
I'm not presuming to answer for rf065, but I watched helicopter pictures on television news of motorways with three lanes of stationary traffic behind jacknifed lorries, and an empty road in front.

Ever watched Ice Road Truckers? They seem to cope with the right tyres.
 
Ok, you know it as a fact. Where is your evidence?
When 4 wheel drive vehicles fitted with the proper tyres were finding
it impassable do tell how winter tyres would have helped.
Opinion dressed up as fact again!

what are proper tyres?
 
This is not evidence, it's heresay. Where is the evidence that lorries with winter tyres would have coped? How do you know all holdups were due to lorries, you don't. You cannot know that your tyres would have coped futher up the road, you merely believe they would. Opinion is fine as is experience but it is not evidence.



As already mentioned, when able to get by the jacknifed lorries, the road was clear and I was able to complete my journey on an eerily empty road without further problems. This is evidence not hearsay, my 11 mile journey took 15 hours due entirely to HGV's blocking all lanes and major junctions. :wallbash:

Russ
 
As already mentioned, when able to get by the jacknifed lorries, the road was clear and I was able to complete my journey on an eerily empty road without further problems. This is evidence not hearsay, my 11 mile journey took 15 hours due entirely to HGV's blocking all lanes and major junctions. :wallbash:

Russ


Sorry, you are transfering one very limited experience to the general, similar to "my black dog has a white tail therefore all black dogs have white tails". You do not understand logic or evidence.
Had they removed the lorries without clearing the road for example? Had the lorries jackknifed because a 4x4 in front of them had failed to negotiate the road? You simply don't know, yet you offer this as evidence that everyone would have been ok if fitted with winter tyres. Your evidence would be laughed out.
 
what are proper tyres?

Not the things fitted to Chelsea tractors so Yummy Mummies jus doesn't get spilled. As fitted to LR Defenders not BMWX3s. I think we all know what proper 4x4 tyres are, if not just google them.
 
Ok, you know it as a fact. Where is your evidence?
When 4 wheel drive vehicles fitted with the proper tyres were finding
it impassable do tell how winter tyres would have helped.
Opinion dressed up as fact again!

Last year I drove up a fairly steep hill on snow in my C270 fitted with winter tyres. Half-way up I had to drive around a 4x4 fitted with summer tyres which could not get any traction....in fact it was sliding backwards down the hill only managing to stop by ramming into a snow drift. Previously I would never have even thought of trying to drive up that hill with summer tyres fitted in snow.That is the best evidence I have that winter tyres really work.
 
Shall we now debate how many angels can stand on a pin head?

You have quoted a LR defender as having a "proper" tyre for winter use and given an example of a summer tyre.

Your point about the tyres fitted by BMW to the X3 is correct. They too are summer tyres, Dunlop SP sport 01s

There are plenty of winter tyres manufactured without having to give a wrong example. Any tyre with the mountain snowflake symbol would be a start.

Just save your time and enjoy this link: tires for winter driving. There is good advice on winter tyres and also the difference between them and all season tyres.

This information is really aimed at the Canadian market, but it is useful in educating people in where tyre technonolgy has got to and explaining the type of tyre that is suitable for different types of climatic conditions.
 
Shall we now debate how many angels can stand on a pin head?

That seems to be all you tend to do with all the discussions you become involved in on here anyways.

Maybe try and be a bit more positive and constructive and not just come on here for an argument?

theres a good lad :D
 
Sorry, you are transfering one very limited experience to the general, similar to "my black dog has a white tail therefore all black dogs have white tails". You do not understand logic or evidence.
Had they removed the lorries without clearing the road for example? Had the lorries jackknifed because a 4x4 in front of them had failed to negotiate the road? You simply don't know, yet you offer this as evidence that everyone would have been ok if fitted with winter tyres. Your evidence would be laughed out.


Perhaps you are related to the transport secretary who was quoted this week stating that "winter tyres are not suitable for the UK as they damage the road surface"? You apparently share the same limited knowledge of winter tyres at any rate! :doh:

Russ
 
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I've never fitted winter tyres to any car and never got stuck. I taught myself to drive on ice & snow soon after i passed my test, on snow bound country roads, without the aid of electronic gizmos in a Triumph 2.5PI !
Even my Dad, in the 60's coped with his Jag MK10 on cross-plys, as well as pulling a caravan!! :cool::)

File0072.jpg


File0082.jpg

Nice pics - we had an Eccles too back then . Never caravanned in winter , though .
 
That seems to be all you tend to do with all the discussions you become involved in on here anyways.

Maybe try and be a bit more positive and constructive and not just come on here for an argument?

theres a good lad :D

Oddly enough all I would like to see, but rarely do, is people producing verifiable evidence for their assertions not just stating their opinions as facts.
Facts may support opinions but opinions are not facts. I would love to have had some of these people in the box, I would have torn them a new ass**** if the judge hadn't done it first.
 
Who argued the technology doesn't work?

I'll break it down to prevent any further misreading/misunderstanding:

Slush: Winter tyres will greatly out-perform others.
Fresh snow: Winter tyres will greatly out-perform others.
Compacted snow with a loose easily broken top surface: Winter tyres will greatly out-perform others.
Densely compacted snow with a frozen surface: Tiny, tiny advantage winter tyres have over others won't even be noticeable to most drivers. On such surfaces driver skill is by far the biggest factor.
Ice and Black Ice: As above except even less advantage.
Wet: A main stream all season or even summer tyre designed for efficient water dispersal will out perform any winter tyre.
Dry: As above except slicks would be best.

Siping is almost an irrelevant argument as nearly all tyres are siped nowadays. No one mentioned an 'aggressive' V tread, just more of a 'V' cut. The primary purpose of a winter tyre is to prevent the build up of snow and slush in the tyre tread, everything else is a compromise - as it is with all other tyres designed for specific purposes. Like an off road tyre is great off road but pretty rubbish on the road, a winter tyre is great on slush and snow but an absolute compromise on all other surfaces.

When you've driven as many miles as I have on winter tyres in Germany, Romania, Bulgaria, Belgium, Austria, Switzerland and the Czech Republic to name just a few, in their winters, on all surfaces ranging from bone dry to solid ice and when you've listened as I have to the good and bad points of winter tyres from drivers in said countries (not the advertising hype) but real experience, then you can tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

Until then open your minds and imagine for a moment that perhaps the advertising and promotional videos put out by those with an interest in selling tyres might just be as true and factual as all other advertising :)

Regards,

While I have no personal experience of modern winter tyres ( I did have a set of Vredestein studded M+S tyres on an Audi years ago ) , from what I have read , temperature plays a big part in the performance of winter tyres over summer ones , due to the hardening of summer compounds below 7 deg Celsius - therefore I would expect a difference in performance in wet or dry conditions when the temperatures were significantly below the working temperatures of summer tyres ?

As has been touched on by many others , I feel the single biggest factor is driver skill and discipline . No matter how well equipped a vehicle might be with AWD , diff locks , winter tyres , chains and anything else you may care to mention - it will still be capable of getting into trouble in the hands of an unskilled , arrogant idiot .

On the other hand , a careful , skilled and experienced driver can often get on remarkably well , even in a 2WD vehicle with summer tyres .
 
Perhaps you are related to the transport secretary who was quoted this week stating that "winter tyres are not suitable for the UK as they damage the road surface"? You apparently share the same limited knowledge of winter tyres at any rate! :doh:

Russ
A good example of missing the point in an endeavour merely to be rude. I only asked how someone was in the position to prescibe the total cure for snow conditions on the basis of having been stuck. If you cannot see that evidence is required before making such assertions then I fear for your thought processes.
However logic is never the strong point of those who have an opinion before a thought.A prejudice to meet every situation!
 
Oddly enough all I would like to see, but rarely do, is people producing verifiable evidence for their assertions not just stating their opinions as facts.
Facts may support opinions but opinions are not facts. I would love to have had some of these people in the box, I would have torn them a new ass**** if the judge hadn't done it first.

Well thats like the kettle calling the pot black. You say a "proper" tyre is fitted to the LR Defender, but its definately not a winter tyre. Your evidence is flawed.

Whilst on the matter, the M+S marking is not a reliable indicator to show that a tyre is any good on snow and ice. The only standardised indicator is the snowflake and mountain symbol. This indicates that the tyre has been tested to perform on snow and ice, but the bar is set relatively low to pass.

Thus although the nokian WR G2 has the symbol, Nokian only describe it as an "all season" tyre and I have seen it rated as only a 1 star (poor) for its performance as a winter tyre.

So far I have not been stuck this winter, and this is due in the majority to having snow and ice tyres fitted. I am confident to drive through 18-24" depth of snow and small drifts of up to 48", even up a 1:8 hill.

These condition far exceed what many motorists will become stranded at.

To conclude, I assume you must have enjoyed my link to the winter tyre tests and can now see the benefits, the very real benefits, that winter tyres have over "all season" and "summer " tyres as you have not responded negatively (yet).
 
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Oddly enough all I would like to see, but rarely do, is people producing verifiable evidence for their assertions not just stating their opinions as facts.
Facts may support opinions but opinions are not facts. I would love to have had some of these people in the box, I would have torn them a new ass**** if the judge hadn't done it first.

There is some evidence in Grober's post no 96 to support the assertion that out of control HGV's were responsible for at least some road blockages , whether due to 'artics jack-knifing' or simply other HGV's coming to rest across a road and blocking it due to their size .

A review of problems experienced with jack-knifed articulated heavy goods vehicles during the freezing weather conditions is being undertaken together with the industry, First Minister Alex Salmond announced today.

New figures show there have been 108 incidents involving HGVs - 63 of which involved jack-knifed lorries during the worst of the recent weather.
.

As with Russ (rf065) experience on the East Kilbride expressway , I was also thwarted last Monday by a jack-knifed artic which had completely blocked a hill at Longbar in North Ayrshire . I had to make a detour through an industrial estate which brought me back out onto the same road just uphill of the jack-knifed lorry ; although the road was obstructed by an abandoned Sprinter van and several people in small FWD cars were doing a fine job of polishing the surface of compacted snow into sheer ice , I was able , once the road was clear of oncoming traffic , to drive carefully around them and climb to the top of the hill - in my automatic , RWD W126 shod with Continental Premium Contact 2 summer tyres , I did have the benefit of a LSD for what it was worth . Although other stuck vehicles delayed me , the only vehicle I could not get past was the HGV which was blocking the full width of the road because of its size ; smaller vehicles may block part of the road but usually there is room to pass them .

I can also support the above contention anecdotally as , having spoken to many of my colleagues in the Fire Service who were out on Monday night rendering assistance to distressed motorists ( supplying hot drinks and food to those stuck in cars as well as rescuing those in need of medical care ) , sometimes by driving the wrong way down carriageways until they reached obstructions , I have been told that many problems were caused by HGV's which had lost control and blocked carriageways or , in some cases , exit slip roads .

As has been stated before , there are two kinds of evidence which can be accepted in a court of law : first is absolute factual proof , the logic of which is incontestable ; secondly is evidence which , although not quite as absolute , comes in such quantity that it cannot all be wrong and its weight gives it credence .
 

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