SL R230 Dension AVR

[Burger]

I had more communication with Dietz following that email and even though they make a couple of MOST interfaces for Mercedes they're absolutely insistent they only pass the audio signal. The video signal according to them must be sent over coax. In fact they went as far as to tell me that if my head unit didn't have a coax connector then it wasn't capable of displaying a video image. I know that's wrong from two fronts: firstly the confirmation from MB that the video signal is sent over the MOST network and secondly the fact it plays DVD's with no problem.

I'm continuing to think about the external monitor route now which in operational terms I prefer anyway as I shouldn't need to switch sources to watch an ipod video. I'm thinking now of a slide out monitor to replace the drinks holders.

Next step however is that this weekend I'm going to dismantle the rear of the car again to get access to the AGW and the Dension 500 (I installed it next to the AGW). Then plug in the Dension AVR and a test monitor to make sure it will work the way I believe it will. The result of this test will then help me decide which way to go.

I'm also still considering an NTG2.5 upgrade and also possibly ditching the entire COMAND system to install a much more sophisticated Double Din unit that handles navigation, blue tooth, video, ipod, phone, DVD etc. My only concern with the latter is that it leaves the center console looking somewhat bland.

I'll keep everyone posted. I think I'll start taking some photos as well so people can see what I'm talking about in a few places.

Regards,

 

[Burger]

Tests completed and I think I've decided to definitely go the external monitor route. I've not yet decided where or how to fit one but at least I now know the AVR will work the way I want it to.

Testing for some reason had a really slow start as at first I couldn't get anything at all to show on a monitor no matter if I connected to the front or rear screen outputs from the AVR. As I'm sure anyone who's fitted Dension kit before will know their instructions and web site leave a lot to be desired and really don't provide very accurate or useful information.

Anyway, first I made absolutely sure the firmware of the GW500 was the latest then I tried various firmware files in the AVR which I assumed were loaded the same way as the FW on the GW500 as Dension don't actually tell you how to load them. I could see that the GW500 knew the AVR was now connected because I got a load more menu items available on the COMAND HU. In fact not only did I get more menu items in the GW500 menus but also the TV, AUX1 and AUX2 choices have appeared. So it turns out these were 'enabled' on the AGW but weren't previously available because the TV Module wasn't installed. Now there's a video device on the network effectively, it's obviously making the AGW believe it's a TV Module.

I tried many different settings on the Dension GW500 video menus, making sure the RSE (Rear Screen Entertainment) source was connected to iPod video etc. I also switched my iPod from a PAL output to NTSC in case that was the signal expected by my old portable DVD player I was using as a test monitor. My DV Cam also has AV IN capability and so I used that too as I knew for sure it expected a PAL signal.

Anyway, eventually, using my DV Cam, the PAL settings file for the AVR and choosing the right menu items I got a picture from the rear screen connectors and finally managed to get one from the front screen connector (the one that would have been connected to the COMAND HU if it had a FAKRA coax video input. This appeared after I grounded the AVR's parking brake detect cable.

Above: Rear bin removed to show the CD changer, AGW and the Dension 500 GW where I fitted it last week. The AVR is just resting there while I tested the concept.

Above: The proof of it working, playing an iPod video.

Above: I decided because the AVR has so many connection possibilities to install it in the rear bin. I may make a false raised bottom to this once I have everything installed I want. So, drilled (hole cutter) a hole to pass the cables through. Also fitted an in-line plug and socket for the AVR power so it will be easy to remove in future.

Above: The bin fitted back in place with the power and iPod leads showing.

Above: Bin internals re-assembled and the AVR in the bottom of the bin fully connected.

Above: Final test prior to putting all the panels back etc.

I still think it is very wrong that Dension are advertising and selling this unit with no provisos or pre-requisites for the SL, but of course I'm much happier now. I will say that if my head unit did have a video in connector this appears to be excellent kit that would work very well.

I'm going to continue giving a monitor fitting some thought. As I only want to watch video when I'm stationery I may even use a portable one that I keep in the rear bin with the AVR... taking it out on a trailing lead when needed.

Regards,

 

[biturbo]

I don't know, but i got a IPod aftermark box in my w220 s600 and it plays videos through the command of my ipod.

 

[Burger]

I don't know, but i got a IPod aftermark box in my w220 s600 and it plays videos through the command of my ipod.

What box is it that you have?

 

[npuk]

Glad you have it all working. Depending on how much money you want to spend and how much space there is under the dash I have seen some aftermarket nice retrofits of screens on top of the dash that flip open like they do in BMWs, or ones that slide up and down vertically.

 

[Burger]

I'm thinking about a few options at the moment because whatever I do I'd like it to look good as well as work well. I did wonder if there's something I could do around the area of the central speaker on top of the dash. In my car, not having the Bose sound system, there is no central speaker and so as far as I can tell that whole grille and area serves one purpose, to hold the clock and parktronic display. There's a fair bit of room under it and so I'm certainly looking at what options might exist.

I've ruled out using the drinks holders area because I would then lose the advantage of having a separate screen as it would cover up the existing screen when extended.

If anyone has any bright ideas for a second monitor in an SL, I'm all ears

Regards,

 

[rhjcamp]

Word of warning, I had some trouble with the Dension AVR unit...

Hi,
I put a similar setup into my Mercedes R Class, with a rear screen, about a year ago. It worked most of the time, but would occasionally go a bit haywire requiring me to stop and turn all of the electrics off for 2 minutes for the MOST ring to power down. If I didn't it would report that the bits on the MOST ring such as tyre pressure sensors or telephone had stopped working.

As an aside, stripping out the AVR, but leaving the Denison 500 works really well for all ipod music, no MOST errors which is strange as the MOST loop only goes into the Gateway 500.

The other annoying aspect, which will not effect a SL of course, was using radio/cd in front and ipod video in the rear. This was controlled using teletext style pages from the front video screen. Clearly when you are on the move the video in my Comand unit would blank out (As we all should not be distracted by video in motion), which made controlling the rear seat entertainment unworkable. If you put the extra monitor in your line of site (to control the rear seat entertainment) then you are breaking the law....

So all in all, I have the AVR unit which I never use.

The only way to go in my honest opinion (Money aside!) is to upgrade to the newer Comand system and do it properly....

I have already upgraded my wife's 2007 SLK to the new Comand NTG2.5 HDD system and it is so much better than the old unit. For starters, 7 digit post codes, much faster compute times, no telephone number full messages with large number of contacts, and it just feels and looks so much more modern compared to the old unit.

I am considering upgrading my Comand unit in my R-Class and putting in a better rear screens, although I personally think the OEM RSE screens on the R-Class look awful.

I can't recommend going the Comand upgrade route highly enough, and once you have done, you will probably rip dvd's onto div/x format, burn them onto DVD's or onto 2gig SD memory cards and never both with the ipod again....

Of course this is just my opinion, and the SL upgrade is a little bit more involved I believe?

Rob

 

[Burger]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for you detailed thoughts and experience. Much appreciated. Over all I'm quite happy with the installation so far, especially now that I decided how I will handle the video through a separate monitor. I've got an 8 inch high definition monitor on order and when it arrives I'll be able to finish the install, once I decide where its temporary mounting will be. I say temporary because I don't want to be distracted with it when driving.

I have a couple of issues I'd like to resolve both of which I've read others suffer when reading around the web...

1. The Dension GW500 doesn't put the ipod to sleep properly so if it's left connected in the car the ipod battery will be flat within 3 days. Not a problem if you drive every day, but as I don't, it can be a problem. When the ipod battery is flat is when the Dension appears to have lost all communication with it and the MOST system requires resetting. If I don't let the battery go flat, I haven't experienced any issue.

2. This is a problem with the ipod which apparently was introduced with ios4 (wish I'd never loaded it). Basically from a fresh start, it won't trigger the video out on a music video if it's played from a music playlist. You must select a video through the video menu for it to output video and thus the AVR to recognise it. Once you've done this, it will then play music videos from music playlists. Hopefully Apple will fix this soon.

I'm sure you're right about NTG 2.5 being the best solution, in fact I don't have any doubt and may well end up doing that at some stage (if I don't win the lottery and buy my SL63 first), but I have greatly enjoyed the experience this has given me and the knowledge and understanding of the cars systems. I'm a bit geeky about such things but do get a lot of fun from it.

Regarding your issues a couple of thoughts sprung to mind. Have you loaded the latest firmware onto the GW500? This addresses a couple of points you raise I suspect... namely the need for resets, and secondly Dension menu enables you to choose which source should be sent to the rear screens so is not affected by the screen blanking. However, that leads onto the next thought which is that there's also an AVR config file downloadable from Dension that allows video in motion.

Anyway, thanks again. Once I get my installation finished with the display installed etc. I'll post more pics.

Regards,

 

[rhjcamp]

Hi,
Yeap, did the GW500 and AVR firmware upgrades. (Copied them to a Hard disk, insert into USD, wait for reboot and download, check bin file afterwards etc)

I sometimes wondered if it took a little bit to long for the GW500 to initialise with the AVR on the MOST ring, hence some of the 'errors'.

On the GW500 menu's, I couldn't find a way of controlling the AVR other than through teletext pages, and the video blanks due to the Comand head unit deciding that we were moving, even though I had gnd the handbrake wire and also loaded the video in motion update. Did I miss some menu options?

I also love to tinker, not quite getting it to work after all the effort of stripping out dashboards etc, left we a little unfulfilled!

I have decided to to go ahead and fit NextBase 9" rear screens using the click and go mountings in my R Class. I will hide all of the wires inside the headrest chrome uprights including AV.

I will attach the click bases directly onto the back of the headrests as I can't fit smaller screens within the actual enclosure as they are full of active head restraint stuff!

Then I have got to decide if I want to upgrade my Comand unit. One going on a well known auction site for £900 including P&P, which when you get the new loom in for another £100+ makes the thing circa £1,000. So not a cheap option.....

Good luck with your AV installation!

R

 

[Burger]

Rob,

I haven't played around with the rear screen settings too much as I don't have rear screens. However, I do see the following settings in the Source menu of the GW...

RSE iPod* 203 Enables iPod Video and Audio to rear screens
RSE DVD* 210 Enables DVD Video and Audio to rear screens
RSE Aux AV* 211 Enables Auxiliary Video and Audio to rear screens

From reading the (usually very poor) Dension user guide it seems you can switch source either through the GW source menu or through teletext.

Something in your head unit must be overriding the video in motion. I have my AVR parking brake cable permanently grounded and my front screen, which remember is a separate screen to the HU does not blank when in motion. I'm sure you could solve this with one of after-market VIM modules if you really wanted to.

On looking for a screen to use for my video I looked at a lot of headrest monitors and was amazed to find what low resolution the vast majority of them are. Nearly always only 234 pixles (or lines) high. I'm getting an 8 inch screen that is 800 x 480 native and capable of downscaling a full 1080p HD video signal. Hopefully it will arrive soon and I can finish my install.

I'll be interested to know if any of the above the helps and how you get on with the rear screen entertainment.

Regards,

 

[Burger]

Back to the drawing board I think...

My new high def 8 inch screen arrived today and while the picture quality is good I can't think of anywhere in the SL to mount such a thing that would be even remotely aesthetically pleasing.

As a last resort I may run the power and video cables through the glove box and keep it in there, but the search is still on for the ideal solution. Perhaps it's time to bite the bullet and fit an NTG2.5 unit?

Or maybe I should go the American route and fill the boot, oops I mean trunk, with amps and monitors... not sure how I'd watch them on the go though I could fit door mounted monitors if the seat controls weren't in the way although seriously, I don't want to spoil the interior...

Any bright ideas anyone?

 

[Burger]

Another update...

I spent a few hours this weekend trying to find some way to mount an external monitor and fabricate a mount that would be temporary, leave no visible signs when removed etc. I tried fabricating one that hooked into the centre air vents but I wasn't happy with it because I felt it would put too much strain on them. I also tried to make one that 'clipped' onto the side of the transmission tunnel and another on the glove box. Finally, I made up something, using an existing mount, that fitted over the centre grille in the top of the dash. While the position of the monitor was OK here and easily viewable by driver and passenger I really wasn't happy with the trailing leads (power and video) which made it look very untidy.

I've deliberated over just scrapping the whole plan and fitting a later NTG unit, but then I would lose what I really like about the separate monitor solution which is being able to see the ipod menu or the navigation screen at the same time as playing ipod videos. Great for example when sitting in the Channel Tunnel train and programming in a destination while watching a movie etc.

So, the bottom line is that I think I have a plan at last...

I'm going to run power and video cables up behind the dash so that they terminate in sockets somewhere on the centre grille. I'm also going to fix a small plastic disc to the centre grille on which the monitor will mount. This way when I want ipod video, music or movie, the monitor will simply attach to the mount and the cables plug in discretely behind it. Nice big, clear separate monitor and no ugly trailing leads.

I've ordered the bits I'll need today and so hopefully I'll have it complete by next weekend at the latest. I'll post some more pics when the bits are here and everything's ready.

Regards,

 

[LTD]

A fantastic read as you try to overcome the problems and settle on a temporary solution.

I can't help but wonder if the Polaroid portable DVD player was the solution you needed all along ..........

 

[Burger]

A fantastic read as you try to overcome the problems and settle on a temporary solution.

I can't help but wonder if the Polaroid portable DVD player was the solution you needed all along ..........

Well, if this goes according to plan it will be a permanent solution for a temporary placement monitor. Although, who knows

The screen resolution on the DVD player is abysmal.

Regards,

 

[Burger]

So, how to mount a power socket and video socket high on the dash without completely ruining the car? Well, some may think this will ruin it, but it's the best solution I could come up with...

Back at the beginning of this saga some may remember how I was upset because I'd broken the centre grille on the car. The upshot of this was that I purchased and fitted a new one however since then I've repaired the old one and so effectively have a spare...

The picture above shows my spare grille together with the sockets I want to fit to it.

There are a few choices for the sockets such as simply mounting them in the mesh but after looking for a while I decided the only real place to mount them was on the small fascia panel that displays the front parking sensors and clock.

Turning the grille over it looks like this...

The parking sensor/clock module is removed of course. However this usually occupies the space marked in blue below...

This only leaves the two areas marked in red in which to mount sockets. Pretty fiddly for a fat finger like me

This would place sockets in the areas indicated in red below...

After making sure that the fascia panel is angled upwards slightly so that any plugs plugged into the sockets wouldn't foul the mesh grille, I set about cutting the holes and fitting the sockets...

Next step is to remove the sockets again, solder on the cables and then fit the monitor mount base (if I don't decide to use a truly temporary windscreen mount). Then dismantle the centre console, remove the comand unit and route and connect the cables etc. I'll most likely get to this at the weekend.

Regards,

 

[npuk]

Looks good. What happened to the 1/2 din solution you were going to go for?

 

[Burger]

A number of issues with the half DIN solution:

1. I could only find two half DIN motorised monitors. One is made by Pyle and only has 234 line resolution (rubbish) and the other by Camos and it costs over £600... Too much to experiment with.

2. The only place I could imagine mounting such a monitor would be in place of the cup holders. I don't want to cut the dash about and in any event, there's not really a suitable space centrally. Two problems with the cup holder area... firstly it's 3mm short in height of being half DIN and secondly the monitor would have to swing out and up blocking the HU screen... so loss of control. I did consider one swinging out and down and so covering the heater controls... but even so there's still the height issue (and availability).

Regards,

 

[Burger]

Another update:

At the moment this mod is on hold because I decided the 8 inch screen I purchased is too big and unsightly for the car. I've got a new 6 inch screen on order that I hope will make it much better. I should then be able to use this screen on a windscreen suction mount or possibly and air vent mount. Such a mounting might change how I want to route the video and power cables and I may run them just below the windscreen along the top of the dash and so not need to modify anything. There again, when I get the screen I may find a completely different mount position. So, on hold until the new screen arrives.

I've also just ordered an active sub woofer for the car and currently have absolutely no idea where I will mount it. So, as both these will probably necessitate dismantling the interior again, I'd rather do both jobs at the same time.

Looking forward to the finished result though, once I can get there

Regards,

 

[rhjcamp]

How about monitors in the visors?

Hi,

You could look at putting monitors in the sun visors, then hide the wiring up inside the lining?

Not quite sure the size, my wifes SLK sun visors would be to small, but the R Class I have would be fine.

As an aside I did fit my new rear screens into the back of the headrests, and I am really pleased with them.

Ran the wiring through the headrests and used cat5 network cable (8 core) for video in/out and sound in/out.

I used the 9" nextbase monitors (480 lines) and permanently fixed the bases to the headrests by cutting the backout of them.

Ran all the wiring, so now just going to retry the Dension AVR unit this weekend again!

Rob.

 

[rhjcamp]

Sunvisor Monitor Pair - 1 to 6 Video Signal Amp - 9"

Is an example of what I mean....