SL Rear seats legality with kids

[classiccarnut]

Does anyone know if it's legal for kids to use the rear seats of a R129 SL without a booster seat ?

It's a really confusing issue, as I'm told that all children under a certain age must have a child seat. However when my 3 year old and 5 year old sons are in the back of the car, they are much more comfortable without a booster, as the booster lifts them too high and their heads make contact with the roll over bar.

Any ideas ?

Steve

 

[EDZ649]

I would have thought the fact that the seat belts are just lap belts would be more of a problem. Personally I don't think I would put a child in any car with just a lap belt, let alone a convertible.

I really don't know why MB even made the rear seat option, you have to be a midget to get in them.

 

[wemorgan]

Child Car Seats : The Law

Children aged 3 and above, until they reach EITHER their 12th birthday OR 135cm in height

In the Front Seat

The child MUST use the correct child restraint.
In the Rear Seat

The child MUST use the correct restraint, where seat belts are fitted.

There are three exceptions where there is not a child seat available. In each case the child MUST use the adult belt instead. They are -

1) in a licensed taxi or private hire vehicle;

2) if the child is travelling on a short distance for reason of unexpected necessity;

3) if there are two occupied child restraints in the rear which prevent the fitment of a third.

In addition, a child 3 and over may travel unrestrained in the rear seat of a vehicle if seat belts are not available.

It is the driver's legal responsibility to ensure that the child is correctly restrained.

 

[219]

If the seats themselves are actually designated as child seats , like the rear facing ones in some estate cars , I'd think they are probably legal .

There is also an exemption , for classic cars ( or any vehicle ) with no rear seat belts , in that children over the age of three can travel unrestrained in the back seat of a car not equipped with seat belts .

 

[classiccarnut]

Thanks for the replies guys.

The comment about the lap belts is perfectly valid and I agree that they are far from ideal. The last toy I had had lap belts in the rear so I fitted 5 point harness style child seats in the rear that were restrained by the lap belt, this was within the design specification for the seats. The problem I now have is the boys are bigger and don't fit the child seats.

Is there a kit or upgrade to put a 3 point seat belt in the rear ? This would make me much happier.

Perhaps I need a 124 convertible instead ?

Steve

 

[Sp!ke]

There was a thread somewhere where some SL owners converted the rear belts to 3 point ones.

I've done a search but can't find it - perhaps it was on another forum?

Anyone remember it?

 

[BTB 500]

Does anyone know if it's legal for kids to use the rear seats of a R129 SL without a booster seat ?

It's a really confusing issue, as I'm told that all children under a certain age must have a child seat. However when my 3 year old and 5 year old sons are in the back of the car, they are much more comfortable without a booster, as the booster lifts them too high and their heads make contact with the roll over bar.

There's no easy way to use them legally for kids.

They are child seats, but they don't conform with the current standard so they are not technically accepted as such. As you've found out, boosters are not a good idea (they're not designed to be used with lap belts anyway).

If you had the car modified to have 3 point belts in the back the kids would officially still need boosters, so that's not the solution.

Personally ... I'm aware that M-B put a HUGE amount of work into the safety aspects of the R129 (the revolutionary 'pop up' roll bar was reputed to cost more to develop than the rest of the car). So I'm happy that our kids are safe in the rear seats designed specifically for them, and on the odd occasion that they ride in the back we turn a blind eye to the legal side of it. Last year a Police officer directing traffic into an event we were attending said hello to them (roof down at the time), so I think the risk of action being taken is slight.

To be clear, I am in no way suggesting you follow this approach of course

 

[classiccarnut]

There's no easy way to use them legally for kids.

They are child seats, but they don't conform with the current standard so they are not technically accepted as such. As you've found out, boosters are not a good idea (they're not designed to be used with lap belts anyway).

If you had the car modified to have 3 point belts in the back the kids would officially still need boosters, so that's not the solution.

Personally ... I'm aware that M-B put a HUGE amount of work into the safety aspects of the R129 (the revolutionary 'pop up' roll bar was reputed to cost more to develop than the rest of the car). So I'm happy that our kids are safe in the rear seats designed specifically for them, and on the odd occasion that they ride in the back we turn a blind eye to the legal side of it. Last year a Police officer directing traffic into an event we were attending said hello to them (roof down at the time), so I think the risk of action being taken is slight.

To be clear, I am in no way suggesting you follow this approach of course

Yes it's pretty frustrating. At first i thought the seats were OK until I realised that with a booster there was a serious risk should the pop up roll bar be deployed (I now realise that you are actually supposed to raise it if you have rear seat passengers). So if they do need to travel in the back, the lap belt and no booster seat is the safest way to travel, unless of course I can find a way of fitting a 3 point harness.

There is a static three point harness I could fit, if there is an anchor point behind the seat back. I think I'll have to do some research !

Thanks all for your comments.

Steve

 

[BTB 500]

As Sp!ke said, it's definitely possible to get a 3-point belt fitted in the back. That would be better than just the lap belt, but of course still not legal. I will see if I can find the details.

 

[Aoraki]

So I'm happy that our kids are safe in the rear seats designed specifically for them, and on the odd occasion that they ride in the back we turn a blind eye to the legal side of it. Last year a Police officer directing traffic into an event we were attending said hello to them (roof down at the time), so I think the risk of action being taken is slight.

Hmmm.... I don't think the legal side of things is what would concern me but more about how I would be after an accident when the kids had been ejected out of the vehicle to become organ donor's

 

[EDZ649]

Hmmm.... I don't think the legal side of things is what would concern me but more about how I would be after an accident when the kids had been ejected out of the vehicle to become organ donor's

Agreed, or been thrown against the back of the roll bar....

 

[classiccarnut]

I understand the comments regarding safety.

Health and safety is actually my job, and i spend many hours carrying out risk assessments, emergency planning and delivering H&S training. It's not a popular subject as most workplace issues tend to be blamed on elf & safety sticking their nose in.....

And though the last two comments are valid, the Incident they are referring to has a very low likelihood albeit catastrophic consequences. Based on mileage, vehicle use etc. my risk assesment for kids travelling in the rear would result in a "low" verdict. The control measures are the safety features already fitted to the car (inc. lapbelts), my driving style, choice of route and mileage.

People get killed on our roads daily, whether they are driving a Hummer or riding a motorbike. What is the likelihood of having an accident and how much of an extra risk is putting your kids in the back of an SL on a lap belt, compared to say putting them in the back of Ford Ka on 3 point harness ?

Let's be sensible about this !

Steve

 

[Oily Rag]

Hmmm.... I don't think the legal side of things is what would concern me but more about how I would be after an accident when the kids had been ejected out of the vehicle to become organ donor's

Don,t say that, does,nt bear thinking about. On a lighter note, I have an R129, with the lap belts in the rear, and have two of my children in the back frequently, have to put mine and passenger seat forward, but with it being auto, its no biggie, and i'm 6ft. I also have grandchildren and whilst one of them is 6 and one 3, I also was having difficulty getting them comfortable and safe with the lap strap. in the end, went for the thinnest, strongest and most comfortable car seat for them. with 3 point harness and lap strap holding all this in. I am supremely happy taking them out and feel confident and happy that they are secure. It will go up to 36 kilos and can be used with lap strap or 3 point seat belt.It is a Baby-Start Solofix. If you looking for something bigger, look at the Britax Kid Fix, this looks good for bigger kids, or the Cybex range, from Mamas and Papas. all available from places like Argos. Have fun in the SL and be Safe and Happy. Regards, Lee.

 

[Jukka]

I had exactly this issue a few years back when I bought a 944 - finding car seats to fit was an absolute bugger. I did find some but was never 100% happy with their fit.

As the kids got older (ie bigger) I revisited the problem. One of the main dangers is where the seat belt comes across the shoulder - without a booster seat it can cut across the neck / windpipe. I don't need to explain how bad that could be in the event of an accident / emergency stop.

Our main car is a Volvo XC90 that has a built in booster seat in the middle in the back that raises the child up by 3-4 inches and hence the belt is over the shoulder and not round the neck.

For the 944 I bought some seatbelt adjusters that position the belt across the shoulder - it is the one that was on Dragons Den a few years ago. Made by a company called 'Autosafe' and which I now see is sold by Halfords for £10 - fully saftey checked, etc. (the Dragons invested £100k on the basis that it would life save even though they didn't see it as a viable business investment). You need to be able to loop it round the back of the seat (in the 944 they fold down so this was ok - not sure about the SL).

Personally I was happy that this then positioned the belts correctly - you obviously lose out on the side protection from a full child seat but as boosters are ok from about 6 years upwards the net effect is the same.

I hope this helps - obviously I am not legally qualified to comment on this so the above is just my personal view / experience.

Good luck with it all.

Justin

EDIT:

My kids are now 9 and 6 - average size, and the 944 was sold 2 years ago to put it all in to perspective.

 

[BTB 500]

Hmmm.... I don't think the legal side of things is what would concern me but more about how I would be after an accident when the kids had been ejected out of the vehicle to become organ donor's

Not going to happen. The rear seats are like bucket seats, and the lap belts hold you in very securely.

 

[BTB 500]

Agreed, or been thrown against the back of the roll bar....

You have the roll bar raised when the back seats are occupied, so it's up above their heads.

 

[Druk]

This company has a good reputation for fitting belts to the back of 107s. Might be worth a call.

Seat Belt Repairs | Seat Belt Replacement | Seat Belt Refurbishment – Quick Fit SBS Ltd

 

[Smiley]

Thanks for the replies guys.

The comment about the lap belts is perfectly valid and I agree that they are far from ideal. The last toy I had had lap belts in the rear so I fitted 5 point harness style child seats in the rear that were restrained by the lap belt, this was within the design specification for the seats. The problem I now have is the boys are bigger and don't fit the child seats.

Is there a kit or upgrade to put a 3 point seat belt in the rear ? This would make me much happier.

Perhaps I need a 124 convertible instead ?

Steve

That was exactly the conclusion I arrived at - had a r129 sl500 - but my wife was very unhappy about the lap belts and the kids could not get their feet under the seats in front so there is nowhere to put their feet. Shame but it had to go. No chance of a r230 for me!

 

[BTB 500]

the kids could not get their feet under the seats in front so there is nowhere to put their feet.

You just need to move the front seats forward a little. No problem at all on the passenger side - there's tons of legroom in the front, my mum has been in the back seat on that side. More of an issue on the driver's side - I'm 6'1" and normally have the seat fully back. Being an auto it's OK to drive with the seat a bit further forward. Not ideal, but doable.

 

[Aoraki]

Not going to happen. The rear seats are like bucket seats, and the lap belts hold you in very securely.

I do hope not, I do agree that it would be unlikely, but people DO get ejected from normal saloon cars with roofs etc.